Driver/ crew communication

[doyle hargraves]

Been trying to help a young guy out with a crate car. He has pretty good equipment and has had a few decent runs won a heat race or two and a bunch of top fives. What we are having trouble with is figuring out what the car actually needs especially when it gets slick. He always complains about being loose off but I feel he is braking the car loose with the brakes going in creating the loose off condition (he’s always on three wheel brakes). My feeling is the car is generally tight on entry. You guys have any strategies or systems of trying to get a rookie to understand what the car is really needing? Thanks in advance

[billetbirdcage]

The dreaded driver/car situation on what is happening with car. . . .

Video tape, other people watching, and over the shoulder camera (tape on wheel and bright driving gloves)

Any of those 3 or a combo of them, can show many times the actual problem. Watch the front wheels, or his steering position.

Most of the time, it takes several races or even a year or more to get acclimated to each other and what terms each other uses to describe things. Sometimes it happens really fast and other times it takes a while to get on same page and understand each other well. I actually find it easiest to put the driver on a need to know basis, I make all the calls (with his input on what the car is doing) on how to fix the car and what is changed and I just tell him to drive it. However the driver has to have full confidence in you to be able to do that.

Over time you will learn what the driver can and can't feel in the car and what he needs in a car and if he is better being slightly tight or slightly loose over the other way around. Also what the driver can and can't do in a car, that all comes into play when I decide what to change on car.

[billetbirdcage]

PS: If the track has multiple lanes (not one lane or one dominate lane you have to be in): Any time a driver complains about forward drive (Note: loose off corner is NOT the same as not lack of or no forward bite), I want to slap them. I couldn't care less about drive off corner for the most part, it's all about corner speed, if you go faster around corner forward takes car of itself.


Note: One guys opinion and it's worth what it cost you, NOTHING.

[Jking24]

To add to what billet is saying four bar cars generally have all the traction in the world it's getting it pointed in the right direction that's the trick. But alot of drivers need to here their getting more traction to make their brain happy ie. Have confidence in your changes when i have a driver like that i always tell him it's gonna make more traction. If i feel he needs to be freed up across the center ill tell him it's gonna give you more rr traction if he needs to be tighter (which is rare) ill tell him it's gonna give you more lr traction. Im not lying and he hears what he wants to hear

[doyle hargraves]

Thanks for the replies guys

I have been thinking about having him run four wheel brakes to in in effect take his crutch away or maybe try and run a bunch of laps with very little brakes to minimize their effect on handling.
I know this sound kinda nutty but was also thinking about some of the brake pads that make a bunch off sparks to give me some visual clues to when and how much brake he is using.

Billet please expound on the tape on the steering wheel deal?

[billetbirdcage]

Billet please expound on the tape on the steering wheel deal?


The tape is referring to putting tape on the wheel at the top when the wheels are straight, then install a Go-pro and video the wheel area. It's easy to see if they are turning left a ton on entry to see a push. I've went as far as painting the back of one drivers gloves white so it shows up better on video. This can tell you a lot, especially if you see he hands moving all over the steering wheel. I've only see a very few amount of drivers that can shuffle hands around on the wheel and be decent. IMO, one hand should never leave the wheel, so you always know which way the wheels are pointed without looking.

You could put a cheap simple brake light on the car like the roof when it hits a certain pressure or a certain amount of travel, I've threatened a few drivers on doing that before we got data acquisition

[fastford]

that piece of tape helped me a long time ago more than any single thing i ever done , it dont lie.......

[ZERO25]

that piece of tape helped me a long time ago more than any single thing i ever done , it dont lie.......

That neon green makes the best redneck data acquisition!....lol

[powerslide]

I've only see a very few amount of drivers that can shuffle hands around on the wheel and be decent. IMO, one hand should never leave the wheel, so you always know which way the wheels are pointed without looking.


I feel this is super important. I've got a 12:1 with 2:1 quicker and feel like i need something quicker so i don't have to move my hands. I'm not having to move them every corner but if you get a little extra yawed out it takes two straightaways to get back where i need to.

Phillips interview about his dad and the rookie tape was a good one.

[billetbirdcage]

I feel this is super important. I've got a 12:1 with 2:1 quicker and feel like i need something quicker so i don't have to move my hands. I'm not having to move them every corner but if you get a little extra yawed out it takes two straightaways to get back where i need to.



You don't need super quick steering to do this: Say your normal hand position is 10 and 2, so if you have to turn hard right obviously your right hand will hit your leg/seat/etc so you just turn the wheel with your left and let your right slide on wheel (left hand does not move off or position on wheel). Once you turn back to more normal position you replace your hand. It will become natural and you will always put or clamp the sliding/unclamped hand back on in the right position after a while.

This way you always know where the wheel is and that you hands always return to the 10 and 2 positions. I prefer more of a 8 and 2 position as your generally turning right but something along those lines will get the job done. As long as from center to lock isn't more the 3/4 of a turn it works without any issues but you will need left hand closer to the 7 to 8 O'clock starting position when steering is centered.

[billetbirdcage]

I should note a containment seat will also go a long ways in helping that work, if you never ran one you will be amazed how much you use your arms and the steering wheel to hold yourself up in the car.

At bare minimum you should have a right shoulder support and head rest.

[let-r-eat]

The ole 3 wheel brake. The drug of choice for race drivers everywhere. Tape the steering wheel. Driver comfort: The most overlooked speed in America.