McDowell, Nuchols express concerns over shortage of capable crew members

[Returning to Dirt]

https://insidedirtracing.com/mcdowell-nuchols-express-concern-over-shortage-of-capable-crew-members/

Veteran team leaders Shane McDowell and Mike Nuchols discuss how times have changed when it come to finding good help in racing.

[3 wide]

Welcome to the real world it's like that everywhere not just in racing.

[mcarter815]

It would be fun to do for a while, but I certainly wouldn't want to make a career out of it. I have too many other interests besides just racing.

[Raceready]

LoL ! I remember back in the day when one of the local teams had so many kids wanting to work on his team that the driver told them that they had buy him a new tire before he would let them touch the car. Believe it or not some would cough up the money to be able be on the team ! Of course back then the kids would also show up when a farmer needed help to bale hay.

[Madcat]

Several teams have taken to facebook to ask for help. Most are paid positions but are full time with travel. Let's be honest, that can't be an easy life, especially if married with kids.

We've helped local teams, some for a few seasons, and even locally it takes a lot of commitment.

Plus these new age kids don't want to get their hands dirty and just want to sit behind a computer all day.

[fastford]

Welcome to the real world it's like that everywhere not just in racing.

you are correct 3 wide , try to find someone under the age of 25 thats interested in auto machine work , its almost impossible , i have a few a year come through that think they might be interested , but when they find out there is no X box involved , well thats it........

[zyoung25]

A lot of guys rely on friends or volunteers for crew help. I done it with a friend that raced regionally for a few years. I never realized the amount of work that went into it until I started doing it myself. There were several nights where id go into my personal job on 2 or 3 hours of sleep, and meet those guys back at the shop the next morning right after working to ride to one of the tracks in the area. Most of the time I'd get in bed somewhere between 2-4am on Sunday mornings after working a midnight-8am night shift job 6 days a week. And start the the whole process over again for myself on Wednesday or Thursday. Those guys would normally "WORSH" the car on Monday, and run the bolts on, and check everything on the car on Tuesday. Wednesday was tar day, unless it was Eldora week, and we moved everything back a day on those weeks. We would normally load everything on Thursday or Friday, depending on what the plan was as far as racing in the area.

Those guys that do it full time are absolute beasts in my opinion. They don't have much of a home or family life at all. I learned a lot in that short time, and met a bunch of people I never thought I'd get to meet. As much as I love the sport, i can see how guys get burned out on it after some time.

[luke81]

So what does a position pay? Say one is a full time crew guy on a Lucas or WoO touring team. If that doesn't put at least 50k in the bank you're crazy. And if its less than that I think the teams are also violating wage laws most likely.

[cjsracing]

So what does a position pay? Say one is a full time crew guy on a Lucas or WoO touring team. If that doesn't put at least 50k in the bank you're crazy. And if its less than that I think the teams are also violating wage laws most likely.

There are easy legal ways around the various wage laws. But your point still stands, the pay for these positions is ridiculous for the time spent. But at the same time a team couldn't pay the help a decent rate because the team is probably not swimming in the cash either. A lot of people love the sport and would love to work in it, but at a certain point they have their livelihood they have to take into consideration.

[dirtkart30]

i did it locally years ago. way to many hours working on the car then add in the travel does not leave much time for your personal life and i was single back then.lotsa hours for little pay unfortunately and sound like nothing has changed..

[EvelB7]

Kids are not the same as they were 20-40 years ago. Years ago kids loved to work in the garage, maybe tinker with cars; too many other interest for them now. I worked for 17 years at a technical school (very racing related one at that)- I can tell you the change and interest level of the younger generations is way different. When I started I had kids standing in line for the opportunities, only the best got into motorsports. One of the reasons I changed jobs was the change in students; I had way more opportunities than bodies to fill them....Young adults with no drivers license wanting to work on cars; a lot less students motivated by the 'gear head' mentality unfortunately...Cars will be driverless in the future-will make it tough to connect to what we currently do, enjoy while we can.

[CCHIEF]

Attention to detail, following direction accurately, and attention span is a real problem with a large majority of help. Basic mechanical skills and sound mechanical common sense is rare today. Not enough time outdoors and necessity to know basic skills has greatly reduced the pool to draw from. Putting the Iphone away for the nights at the shop... and at the track helps to immensely shorten the learning curve!

[Kromulous]

How much does a Crew Chief on a good Team could expect to make now days? May be time for a career move, and i even have a CDL, class A, and no violations in 25 years !

I am getting tired sitting behind a desk all day, clicking away on my computer LOL.

[TerryM]

The younger generation now is more interested in a college education; an engineering degree, or a degree in computer science, the medical field, etc. Something you can make a really good living at, without breaking your back. I can’t hate on them for that. When I was growing up, a lot of people could carve out a good living with just a high school education. That isn’t the case anymore. I remember being the young generation and older folks always talking about how terrible we were. Now it’s people my age talking about how terrible the current younger generation is. It’s an ongoing cycle that’s been in motion forever. The only thing that’s changed is, opportunity.

[Dlmfan123]

It sucks a few idiots ruin the rap sheet for the rest of us.. there are still a some of us who go out and work hard every day!!

[fastford]

terry , studies show that 70% of college graduates are unemployed or under employed (working at McDonalds) , a kid with a 2 year associates degree that has a skill , starts out making more money than most with a 4 year degree , i graduated college in 1985 , back then if you had a 4 year degree in anything , there were plenty of jobs available , not any more , in our area now , if you are going to get a job with a 4 year degree , the only opportunity left is medical or education field , and neither one pays no where near what a skilled welder or millwright makes.......

[cjsracing]

Amen Terry.

My dad always preached to me "find a career where you can make good money using your mind instead of your body". He saw how "working hard" took a toll on his body, my grandpas body and my uncles bodies so he didn't want me to go through that when I got older. I took his advice, have a great career that isn't physical (doesn't mean I don't work hard cause I do but it is a different type of hard work). This also allows me freedom to race when I want.

[cjsracing]

terry , studies show that 70% of college graduates are unemployed or under employed (working at McDonalds) , a kid with a 2 year associates degree that has a skill , starts out making more money than most with a 4 year degree , i graduated college in 1985 , back then if you had a 4 year degree in anything , there were plenty of jobs available , not any more , in our area now , if you are going to get a job with a 4 year degree , the only opportunity left is medical or education field , and neither one pays no where near what a skilled welder or millwright makes.......

There are plenty of fields that aren't medical or education that have opportunity (IT, Finance, etc. for example). I agree there are trades that pay the same or better than some fields that require degrees, but in my experience those trade fields can lack benefits such as a retirement plan.

I'm a CPA and have many clients who are both trades people and college education people.

For example one client is a plumber and makes $45/hour but his employer doesn't offer any retirement benefits. Another client is a IT Security Manager and makes $30 with retirement benefits. While it appears on the surface the Plumber is in a better position, I'd argue that the IT guy is in a better position because 1) he strictly works 40 hour weeks, 2) his employer has a 401k plan to help him in retirement and 3) he will have less wear & tear on his body, so his quality of life will be better when he's older.

Not trying to argue just trying to show a comparison.

[No_Weak_Links]

Nobody wants to work for $400 cash for an 80 hour week with no benefits and never home.

[mcarter815]

A software engineer with a four year degree and a few years of experience can make $100k+ plus benefits and can still have a life outside of work and won't tear their body up with manual labor. Working on a race team is awesome, but the math doesn't line up.

[ride height]

I don’t know how anybody can run up and down the highway in an 11 mpg race toter, buy tires, and pit passes much less PAY someone to play race car with you. I always figured the “help” was your buddies and family etc.

[fastford]

evidently what part of the country you live in makes a huge difference , but in the area i live , there is none of the high paying higher education jobs , my daughter has her masters in biology and has a great job teaching biology at a local school , my son is in his senior year and majoring in English and communication , he has no interest in teaching so i told him he may as well be ready to move to a larger city to secure a job , all these high paying engineering and finance jobs are few and far in between in my area , the reference i made toward education or medical i guess only applies to my area of the country because technical jobs far out way engineering jobs........

[Josh Bayko]

I'm sure they could find folks that would want to go on the road with a DLM team. The big problem is finding people that know what they're doing, and do it well. These cars are so complicated anymore, a person with some mechanical talent just isn't enough.

[Tek2747]

There are plenty of fields that aren't medical or education that have opportunity (IT, Finance, etc. for example). I agree there are trades that pay the same or better than some fields that require degrees, but in my experience those trade fields can lack benefits such as a retirement plan. I'm a CPA and have many clients who are both trades people and college education people. For example one client is a plumber and makes $45/hour but his employer doesn't offer any retirement benefits. Another client is a IT Security Manager and makes $30 with retirement benefits. While it appears on the surface the Plumber is in a better position, I'd argue that the IT guy is in a better position because 1) he strictly works 40 hour weeks, 2) his employer has a 401k plan to help him in retirement and 3) he will have less wear & tear on his body, so his quality of life will be better when he's older. Not trying to argue just trying to show a comparison. I agree, there's tradeoffs to be considered in every field. I make decent money at a white collar job but I have some friends who earn more than I do in blue collar fields. For me, the difference is I come home every evening and I am home each weekend to be with my wife and kids and that's more important to me than the extra dollars I could earn working with my buddies. Its all about your priorities.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Really good post.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Started in high school working for a racing family at their feed, building supplies, concrete business. Was there 5 summers, high school and college.

I went to a two year school for Heavy Equipment Operating. When I was there it was strictly that. Now it is tied in with our Operators Union. Should have stayed here I grew up and got into the apprenticeship. Then I’d have around 18 years in my Union. But I’d gave never met my wife, so I guess there’s that. Or stayed around Columbus. I’d have stayed near Youngstown/Cleveland.

Then I went to a good size excavating company just north of Columbus. I was there 7 years, non union. Not a bad company. Just didn’t pay attention to things and got very slow. Like in 2010 their workforce was at about 25% of what it was. So I obviously left. No work

Went to one of the largest privately owned construction companies around. I think the largest in Ohio. Was at their asphalt plants for seven years. Do not recommend it. Stupid hours, lower pay, special contract. Just not very good. Not a good work environment. But it was seven years in the Union, got me in the door.

Finally said fuk it when they tried to put me on nights again. I had enough. Dam good at what I do, I take care of my machine. Yes, I would steam clean it. Only person that would. But it was literally held against me. Taking pride in my machine, a 980M CAT, was frowned upon. I got it brand new.

So I left, went to a company that has been around for 108 years. Good, union company based in Columbus. Smaller than other company. But pay very well, never mess with my pay. Great crew, really happy so far. Been over two years. Over a year on the same crew.

Without being political, and it’ll be hard, whatever. I’d advise any young person if you can, and you don’t wanna go to college, get into an apprenticeship. Gotta be the right Union though. Electric, operators, plumbers, etc.

Funny, people for years have cried about Unions and skilled trades jobs, and pushed college, and paying the skilled trades less, with crap benefits. So guess what. Now we have a whole generation that doesn’t wanna be in skilled trades. Sees no future in it. There is, get with the right company, the right position. Keep your head up, pay attention to those you see are good at what they do, and learn.

I have daughters, so I’m not pushing the trades with them. Plus at least my oldest is very book smart. So not really skilled trades material. But if I had a son. I’d push any skilled trades job, except welding. Get in their apprenticeship and learn.

As far as a race team, he!! no. I want benefits, good pay, home with my family, etc. Not a generational thing, priorities thing to me.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I run primarily wheeled loaders on a pipe crew. We work around Columbus. Operating Engineers Local 18. I’ve been a loader operator on pipe crews for around 8 years. In the field on loaders for about 18-20 years.

[hjr2]

Living the dream is not financially sustainable without someone elses money. How many teams in the pits are led by truly self made men that didn't have Mom and Dad footing the bill?