We have reached the point!

[play4kps]

Last night both Lucas and WOO barely had a full field. Now when you go to a regular lucas oil show, you 3 heats and a feature. This sport is losing cars a record rate. That really stinks 30 dollar admission and you get 3 heats and a feature. In the past we all expected at least 4 or 5 heats and at least a b main.

[Shiny Side Up 18]

Welcome to "The Next Level".

[grt74]

they are going to have to fix local and regional racing or its not going to stop, stop the bleeding or the body will die
there are alot of people i know that can afford the cars and race but there isn't anywhere to race and the pay out is a joke on weekly deals,and they have to work or own businesses and can't travel all year
don't know the fix but doing the same thing over and over isn't going to fix it

[Josh Bayko]

Last night both Lucas and WOO barely had a full field. Now when you go to a regular lucas oil show, you 3 heats and a feature. This sport is losing cars a record rate. That really stinks 30 dollar admission and you get 3 heats and a feature. In the past we all expected at least 4 or 5 heats and at least a b main.

In the WoO’s case, they were at a track that has zero local cars. The fact that they even got to 23 isn’t so bad.

[WisWildManFan]

It’s pretty simple math $100k cars racing for $10k to win. Locals don’t have the sponsorship $ to make that work.

[dirt crow]

For a fan that just mostly loves the big boys, One National series is fine with me. The Lucas Oil World of Outlaws. I’m in the minority I know, but I like it. 17-20 series regulars, local tracks top 2 in points guaranteed to make feature when they come to town. Every race 15 k to win, 1.5k to start. ....now let’s see if I get blasted below. Lol

[nc mudcat]

At a track with no locals to fill the field + the end of the year, when lots of racers have gone broke and given up + Cost of racing = short fields.

[Josh Bayko]

The sanctioning fee required of a 20 car tour would be over what tracks are willing to pay, let alone their ability to come up with the purse like the one you described. The dollars and cents part of national DLM racing is already at the threshold of what tracks are willing to pay.

Eventually there will probably be a Lucas Oil presents the World of Outlaws (it’s come real close before in a co sanctioning type situation for a couple races), but it will be out of necessity because there will simply not be enough competitors left for two tours. If we get to that point, the end of dlm racing is upon us.

[hoosier race fan]

The Lucas Oil series was also at a track (Kokomo) that does not race late models weekly and the nearest track that does is at least 2 hours away. 24 cars was decent, and still put on a very entertaining race. Costs are absolutely out of control, can’t disagree with that at all.

[dirt crow]

Josh, when I hit the powerball I’ll pay the purse the first year. Lol

[play4kps]

Im not trying to be negative. We all need to wake up. But honestly on 4m the only thing that matters in Lucas, WOO and the World and Dream.
Put this in perspective, Eldora is so far removed from being a late model track that Ricky Weiss is the track champion for this year for late models. World, Dream and he ran the Baltes classic. That was the extent of late models run at that track, and then one wonders why this year the car count was lower and continues to slide. I live 45 minutes from Eldora near Troy Ohio, Im easily 2 plus hours from any track running late models, Oakshade, Florence, Moler or Atomic. It would be real nice to see Eldora put some kind of series at the track, 6 races, all paying 5 or 10 grand to win and a 25,000 dollar to win series. Pay it on thru 20 places generously. And then pay a 25,000 dollar bonus if the series winner wins the world. That would be awesome for the sport and ignite a growth.
They are charging 24 bucks for the Baltes classic anyways, so a lot of money is coming in to pay the purse. And you know easy it is for Eldora to get sponsors. and they make more than enough from the world, dream and kings royal to start to help grow grass roots level racing in west central Ohio.
And if you have to, get rid of a lot of the banking, look at how competitive Knoxville was compared to Eldora. That will also cut expense and eliminate the free air issue.
just some crazy ideas. but I think they would help.
Its time for Eldora to help promote the growth of racing,

[WisWildManFan]

Eldora isn’t the problem... honestly if I lived that close to eldora I would be pretty happy with their diverse schedule

[153J]

the "point" was reached years ago when there were no more b mains at local tracks , and then crossed when local tracks considered 20 cars a full field

[Rocky]

Full field doesn’t really mean the same thing at every track 24 cars are way too much for one race at some tracks. 4th of July at Halifax I had my shish box down there planning on running a B main and none of the other slow guys showed up. I started 22nd behind Russell Erwin. Had to spin my car lap 1 corner 2 to miss a 16 car pile up. Ran 2 laps, took it to the trailer and got my start money. I would like for there to be more slow guys, so I have guys to race, but I don’t understand why fans would care. Only one guy can win.

[Rocky]

Speaking as a fan, I know that many people just want to go out to the local track and watch their cousin race and hang out with all their family. They haven’t been to Eldora they know the big names only from visits to their town and they aren’t about to start traveling. They are the blood and bones of this sport and if Super late models die, they will still be there, watching crates or limiteds. I like Supers, wish I had one. (Yes I have run a couple super races) but honestly.... guys we’re the super minority here. Promotors should worry less about what we, The super nerds on 4m think than anybody else we’re 1 percent of fans.

[play4kps]

Rocky, You said it all. That is what grew the sport.
Wiswildman, I never blamed Eldora, I just noticed the comments on how Kokomo did not run late models regularly, I was just pointing out neither does Eldora. And its great Eldora has good sprint shows also, The point I was saying is Eldora is dark so many weekends of the race season, the track is closed from June 15th to July 18th, and also closed from August 3 to Sept 1st. Thats 2 months out of a 3 month summer of a short racing season to begin with. they also scheduled 2 races headlining ump modifieds and bombers to support, less than 35 cars total for the night. The All star sprint series was scheduled 1 time. Just pointing out that for such a great facility, it would be nice to give the guys who raced there and the fans who supported the place some racing in the summer.

[hucktyson]

The costs to open and run eldora are astronomical compared to other dirt tracks. Having a facility of that caliber requires an army of paid workers. You can’t even break even without a ton of fans and fans don’t support the small events.

[TUTY]

I believe the above statement is what has happened at the big tracks all over the country. We have Husets Speedway in Brandon SD closed for the past 2 years after 8 million dollars was stuck into it. They need 50 to 100 employees to show up on race night and can you imagine what that cost. They have 2 entrances 3 towers, sky boxes, concessions all over the place. It takes waitresses, security, bar tenders, just way to many people to turn a profit on a weekly show. If 50 people make $10 per hour for 6 hours it cost $3000 just in wages plus another probably $3000 for weekly employees keeping the track in shape, Insurance and getting thing ready for race night. It’s crazy but almost impossible.

[bullring]

It's a tough situation that people in power don't want to address. Ridiculous car costs vs return makes for smaller and smaller fields.

For example I went to a Summernationals race around 3 years ago. 19 cars. So had one 7 car heat and 2 six car heats. Guys like Shirley and Erb start in front rows and dominate the field which consists of cars that sound like street stocks compared to theirs. Every car makes the feature so heats mean nothing. Every race won from front row. Hard to justify 25 or 30 bucks I paid to see that.

[play4kps]

I understand your argument about the expense of opening it but that's like buying a brand new car and never driving it that track is closed two of the three months of Summer that makes no sense.

[Rocky]

Every race track operator has to worry about his bottom line. Super late models around here are a travelling deal only. You have to worry about getting those 4 local guys with big families out there every week not worry about the handful of one percenters that will take time off work and drive to Florida in February out there. If that means your top class is limited or crate, or even Modified...... You do that. It's too far down the rabbit hole fellas. Get used to it.

[Rocky]

BTW, from a recent foray to Michigan, there's a lot of cars in the Midwest that would be called limited on the East Coast or in the South running Super up there.

[dirt crow]

It's a tough situation that people in power don't want to address. Ridiculous car costs vs return makes for smaller and smaller fields.

For example I went to a Summernationals race around 3 years ago. 19 cars. So had one 7 car heat and 2 six car heats. Guys like Shirley and Erb start in front rows and dominate the field which consists of cars that sound like street stocks compared to theirs. Every car makes the feature so heats mean nothing. Every race won from front row. Hard to justify 25 or 30 bucks I paid to see that.

Car counts would return if there wasn’t so many regional series. There’s too many of em.

[Rocky]

Dirt Crow there's so many regional series because the division has been dropped weekly in a lot of places. Around here, steel blocks only. Farther south, crates only. There's just less unlimited motor late models than there used to be.

[Krooser]

31 supers @ at Seymour, WI last night for the Dirt Kings race.

Great show for their 2nd annual Fall Brawl.

This race was the first time I wished I had worn ear plugs.

The supers were loud with the sound bouncing off the steel grandstand. But the Grand National cars that usually run at Plymouth were even louder. (metric chassis with a pavement style body and high HP iron heads engines). The top two guys must have been running 9 grand plus... just screaming. But the 3rd place guy was nearly silent! Could not hear his car among the other 18 or so in their main. Weird...

All in all a great show with a good crowd and they must have had 150+ cars in the pits.

[Crash 4]

I watched the replays of Saturday night races on DOD this morning. The races at Red Cedar, Beckley, and Eriez were much better races than the WOO and Lucas races. Anyone who thinks that you need a major sanctioning body to have a great race, is really missing alot of good racing going on across the country. Support your local tracks.

[TerryM]

If not for those regional (and national) series, I wouldn’t get to see any supers in Georgia. We’ve just about quit going to any local races because of how things are done down here.

[Dlmfan123]

There are way to many regional series

[dirt crow]

There are way to many regional series

Exactly......

[play4kps]

There are too many regional series, it does hurt the tracks. It makes no sense for Eldora to be closed 2 out of the 3 months of the summer. Earl sold that track to tony because he wanted to sell it to a guy who loved racing and would continue his tradition, the day Earl died was the day Eldora became a special events track only.
As I posted earlier about a 6 race series paying 10,000 to win, and a 25,000 dollar 1st prize to the point winner with a generous point fund payout for the top 20. There is no reason you wont get 30 plus cars every show, they already charge 24 bucks for a regular show, you will easily get 10,000 people for those races, the track cant help but make money. And like I said, if you have to get rid of some of the banking, it will eliminate the free air issues and cut cost on wear and tear of engines and will make for better racing, look at knoxville compared to the World.

[TerryM]

I’m curious as to which regional series are y’all referring to? Which states? Which ones do you want gone? Let’s see some specifics instead of generalizations.

[Josh Bayko]

I watched the replays of Saturday night races on DOD this morning. The races at Red Cedar, Beckley, and Eriez were much better races than the WOO and Lucas races. Anyone who thinks that you need a major sanctioning body to have a great race, is really missing alot of good racing going on across the country. Support your local tracks.

Of course you don’t need a sanction to have a great race, but they certainly bring a better crowd than an unsanctionedp show.

[Rocky]

Maybe they want Ultimate shuttered, because the heck with us where as that’s the only Supers we get. Lucas and WoO can take a flying leap for all I care. I understand that some of y’all want ALL the cars, too bad. You got to share. Lol 😆

[GrocMax]

The happy fans went to Deer Creek this last weekend and got to see all the things they like- Great facility, excellent track and prep, lots of cars, and lots of racing. The cars just didn't have fenders in the front.

[3 wide]

We're I live the only way I see supers is if it is a special race all the weekly racing is crates an they run anywhere between 8 an 10 classes a friend of mine went to a local track they had 8 classes on the schedule at midnight they had run one feature.

[Rocky]

8 classes of cars that are all mostly the same is a product of everybody wanting a chance to win without working hard to do it. In the 80s there would be 80 factory stocks at our local track. Winning a consi was better than a lot of stuff that passes as a feature today. Then you get to move on to the semi, and if you make it to the feature congrats, now you really better do your homework. I mean we have 3 or 4 divisions of late models, 5 divisions of bombers and of course the hornets. But that's a societal problem boys. Sure, you win a 7 car feature..... Congrats.

[dirt crow]

Terry - State series, (MSCC, LA, TX, Carolina Clash, etc) fine with me. But I believe they should only run at that states tracks. CC would obviously be two states. No venturing out. For as regional in the southeast, comp cams, southern all stars, Ultimate. That’s plenty. Cook’s spring and summer deals are a good thing too. That’s enough in my book.

[dirt crow]

8 classes of cars that are all mostly the same is a product of everybody wanting a chance to win without working hard to do it. In the 80s there would be 80 factory stocks at our local track. Winning a consi was better than a lot of stuff that passes as a feature today. Then you get to move on to the semi, and if you make it to the feature congrats, now you really better do your homework. I mean we have 3 or 4 divisions of late models, 5 divisions of bombers and of course the hornets. But that's a societal problem boys. Sure, you win a 7 car feature..... Congrats.

I agree. Supers and crates only. I hate seeing 4-5 classes that look the same.

[Rocky]

Crates run with limiteds around here. The division is just called Late Model. With FUEL series rules.

The other classes, that’s a whole different ball of wax. There’s a need for a pro stock class, and a Hornet class but the amount of real steel cars to make stock cars out of is pretty dry. Our Super Streets have turned into B-Sportsman mostly. I don’t know if that’s good or not.

[Rocky]

Except when you figure that you can get a Black front end Rocket for practically free, why chop up a classic Camaro to make a street stock? However a Street Stock really should look like an actual car. At least a passing resemblance.

[TS FAN]

Local shows are of concern. Added purse shows and Lucas, WOO etc. do not concern me. When people quit coming, to added purse shows and series shows, then it is time to worry IMO. Huge car counts are going to be hard to come by because of so many options for the drivers. That is fine. Brownstown had 34, not bad. The night before Lucas ran at a track with no locals. About what you would expect. I remember years ago when Lawrenceburg had Lucas Oil and they had no weekly LM series, they were getting about 25-30 cars too. Bottom line is this. How good is the racing itself? For the most part, the feature is what matters. To have competitive heats adds to it. But rules for the cars themselves has something to do with car counts, Right? Can always make it easier for drivers to race.

[Dlmfan123]

@josh bayko, what is a sanction feee for Lucas/WoO currently??

[Josh Bayko]

@josh bayko, what is a sanction feee for Lucas/WoO currently??

I believe Lucas is 7500 and the WoO is 10k. The tracks also have to come up with the entire purse.

[PH88N92]

Y'all are lucky to live in an area that runs Late models. In south Texas it's rare to see late models... When UDS said they were getting with tracks in south Texas to put on some show's, and paying good purses but then to find out it was all BS really pissed off a bunch of people in south Texas... It would be nice to get some good late model racing like they had a few weeks ago at TMS... racing for $ 1000.00 to $ 1500.00 just not worth it.