low car and fan counts,,why?

[backspace]

I have attended many tracks this season and amazed how low fan counts have been, same with cars at some locations. What are your thoughts on this? Economy? Newer generation? I am tired of paying $12 to $15 to see 10 cars total in one class..I feel the show is not worth the price,,,maybe this is the issue? One thing I do know is the prices keep creeping up but the drivers pay sucks on a regular night event. I know racers are not in it for big money but some tracks only pay $50 to start feature,,back runners have fallen off here probably because $50 doesn't even pay for fuel for tow rig and car. I think the racing world is in trouble.....thoughts?

[RW57]

People don't have the extra money to spend for entertainment. Despite the economy I know I don't.When 2 Big Mac value meals cost 16$ something's wrong.Due to health issues I haven't raced this year.It cost me 150$ + to go race a hobby car. Tow money is 35 to 50$ depending on track. Keep in mind that cost is not buying tires or anything for car. If I win I get 350 $ if I buy 2 tires that's 320+ tax.So to sum it admission is now 12 to 15$ pits 35$ it's a losing proposition for every one. I really don't know if it can be saved.

[heinen81]

I agree... unless going to a sprint car race. Even the regional 410's and 360's bring in a pretty full house and pull enough cars to run 1 or even 2 B-mains. I paid $25 to watch the IRA 410 finale with MSA 360's and wingless crates and the stands were packed in 50 degree weather, and 110 cars in the pits. Seems like any track I visit with sprints, crowds are much better.

[Krooser]

Car costs... No advertising or promotions... No fun things to do at the track for kids and teens... Take a look at the kind of promos semi pro baseball does to get fans... Autograph nights/guest ball boy promos/ tons of giveaways/ admission specials/ group ticket sales/ all inclusive pricing (ticket with food and drinks for $2 more than a reg. ticket). All sorts of new and innovative schemes to get people into the stands.

What does the average dirt track do to match those ideas?

[mcarter815]

It takes a lot of time to run a car. A lot of weekly guys don't have help during the week so all of the repairs and maintenance falls on one person, which takes a lot of time. When I was racing every weekend, all of my free time went into working on my car. I am interested in more than one hobby, so I cut way back on the racing.

[dirty bert]

I agree... unless going to a sprint car race. Even the regional 410's and 360's bring in a pretty full house and pull enough cars to run 1 or even 2 B-mains. I paid $25 to watch the IRA 410 finale with MSA 360's and wingless crates and the stands were packed in 50 degree weather, and 110 cars in the pits. Seems like any track I visit with sprints, crowds are much better.Why is that, I've noticed on TV are reading about results from Sprint car races that they always have more than a full field of cars and packed stands.lve never been to a Sprint race but I know they can't be cheaper to build are run then a late model so is the pay back are what.

[smoothoperator32]

I have pretty much lost interest plus being in a wheelchair there is no place to watch from at most tracks.

[heinen81]

Why is that, I've noticed on TV are reading about results from Sprint car races that they always have more than a full field of cars and packed stands.lve never been to a Sprint race but I know they can't be cheaper to build are run then a late model so is the pay back are what.

Although I am more a late model fan at heart, I was on a travelling 410 crew for a few years and definitely notice better crowds, at least in the Midwest. May be completely different down south. As far as cost... Motors are a tick higher than a new wide bore given the injection cost. Rollers are probably around 10k cheaper for the sprint. Shocks are also much cheaper on a sprint, as there are less of them and some guys don't even mess with double adjustable on every corner. All in all, there isn't a whole lot to be done to adjust a sprint car other than shocks, taking out/putting in bar turns or maybe a bar switch itself. Changing pills and adjusting the bypass. Gears. Maybe move the radius rods up or down a hole, but those are usually left alone. Rear tires def get chewed up per night, but fronts very seldom. I would love to see the overall cost comparison, but I feel given all the adjustability and shock technology on the late models, especially with all the aero advantages now, that the sprints cost less to run on average.

[nc mudcat]

311 had Carolina Sprint tour saturday night, paying $1000 to win and drew 25 cars. No local sprint racers in this area. Cars run Racesaver engines to save money, so pretty low buck cars. Cars don't have to cost a fortune to be fun and put on good racing. Videos from 311 posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/CarolinaSprintTour/

[luke81]

Since I stopped racing 5 years ago my attendance as a fan has also heavily declined. I used to hit 30+ races a year in Florida and Georgia. Then maybe 20 races in Florida. Then 10-15 at East Bay, since its 20 minutes from home. This year I did 2 winternationals races at East Bay and haven't seen another race all year anywhere except one pavement sprint race at Showtime, which is literally 2 minutes from my shop. Why? All too often it's just not that entertaining anymore and doesn't have any value. 50 cars in the pits across 7 or 8 classes. The disparity in the classes is boring. Half of the late model races I've seen down here have been won by 3 or 4 guys. Half of the late model field would get lapped by a fast street stock. And speaking of East Bay specifically, the track is usually totally rubbered down by the end of the heats and they never do a thing to it. And somehow they drag it out for 5 hours.

[waaac77]

People don't have the extra money to spend for entertainment. Despite the economy I know I don't.When 2 Big Mac value meals cost 16$ something's wrong.Due to health issues I haven't raced this year.It cost me 150$ + to go race a hobby car. Tow money is 35 to 50$ depending on track. Keep in mind that cost is not buying tires or anything for car. If I win I get 350 $ if I buy 2 tires that's 320+ tax.So to sum it admission is now 12 to 15$ pits 35$ it's a losing proposition for every one. I really don't know if it can be saved.

The economy actually is fine. The reason why your Mickey D's order is so much is because fast food employees want a $15/hour minimum wage. Ok, jack up the prices a bit and no one takes your order anymore it's now been replaced by a kiosk.

The one thing that will NEVER change, as a business owner, no matter what the economy is doing you need to get people in to produce, everyone say it with me now... revenue. Just like the earlier post says, giveaways, autographs, something for kids to do while they're there like a sandbox or mini playground. It may sound stupid but that's how you get people to come. When the kids are there playing around they get used to being there and eventually notice that the racing is great and want to come back as they get older.

Racing is a business. If you don't think it is then you won't be in business for very long. You have to basically run it just like any other business to succeed. A lot of tracks that close down do not realize this. The tracks that are doing well, do.

[dirty bert]

Thanks heinen81, I'd like to see the cost comparison to, you know after thinking about it there's not much to a Sprint chassis compared to a late model just looking like I said I've never saw them run an I don't think I've ever seen one in person there's not many down n.ga,e tn.

[let-r-eat]

I think it's all $$$ related. People are believing the economy is good when it really isn't as good as they think. Acquiring debt and getting their butts in a sling to where they can't entertain themselves with racing. Racing has changed enormously in the last 5 years. People buying speed and knocking out the less fortunate. The 25 car fields that had 5 contenders and 21 field fillers are getting whittled down to the contenders. The field fillers are leaving in droves as soon as their used up stuff cost too much to fix.

The touring series seem to be the waive of the future for late models. Taking hold somewhat with fastrack in crates and dirtcar with modifieds. Local racing is struggling somewhat from what I'm witnessing.

[heinen81]

Thanks heinen81, I'd like to see the cost comparison to, you know after thinking about it there's not much to a Sprint chassis compared to a late model just looking like I said I've never saw them run an I don't think I've ever seen one in person there's not many down n.ga,e tn.

No problem! As of 2 years ago you could buy a new Maxim B-Max for around 3k frame only. I believe with a front axle, panels, floor, bumpers and radius rods it was around $5000-5,500. Where they get expensive is adding the Ti lower shaft in the rear, driveshaft and other bolt-ons. Still significantly cheaper than a late model. Birdcages are 1/3 of the cost, inboard break setup while Ti… also cheaper than 4 brakes all the way around a late model. I believe our XR-1 rear ends were about 4k, not sure where that stacks up against a late now. Slade shocks made a great shock, and the new twin tubes are $300 per shock, although you will want a dbl for the LR especially. Not much on those things, I guess that's why you can basically rebuild one in the pits or swap a motor in 15 minutes lol.

[Links]

Other forms of entertainment competing for the same $$ is a lot more of the reason than people think. Netflix is emptying sports stadiums and race tracks across the US. We are no longer just competing with other area tracks for $$. Cheap cheap cheap is what the next generation is dealing with. No good paying jobs leaves little top no extra cash and what they do have they are getting the most out of. $15 per person per week...same cars racing every week...little to no creature comforts at these tracks, OR, $15 per month of unlimited entertainment for the most part. I'm talking weekly programs here. Big races seem to be oversold for the most part this year.

[jog49]

I've watched the decline for years and find that the young people nowadays are not the car nuts growing up like we (the older crowd) were and have entirely different interests. I watched hundreds of younger people show up at a local track on Saturdays and never watch the first race or be able to tell you who won a race. They're at that track to socialize. Racing is a minor inconvenience to them because of the difficulty in hearing. As for the car counts, most of the people I see racing must have money trees in their backyards because I'm surprised they can afford to put something on the track.
One driver I know who won many championships in SLMs had to move all the way down to crates to keep racing when a dependable sponsor died. It's all money-driven, you know. Seldom can the little guy even compete.

[RW57]

Midwest promoters are more in tune to the fans always offering something extra it don't happen in GA at all or at least where I race.411 speedway in tenn offered everything free a little while back for racers and fans.I read the place was packed .I sure there were people who had never been and will never go back but if you picked up 50 new fans that tell 50 friends what a blast it was and on and on. Sure the track took a bath that nite but look at big picture. Too many promoters are greedy and lazy they want to rely on here's my product it's great but don't try to entice any body to come. Too much competition for the entertainment dollars.Its hot and dirty you don't start on time bad concessions on and on people would rather go to a nice clean cool movie theater etc it's tough out there.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

The economy actually is fine. The reason why your Mickey D's order is so much is because fast food employees want a $15/hour minimum wage. Ok, jack up the prices a bit and no one takes your order anymore it's now been replaced by a kiosk.

The one thing that will NEVER change, as a business owner, no matter what the economy is doing you need to get people in to produce, everyone say it with me now... revenue. Just like the earlier post says, giveaways, autographs, something for kids to do while they're there like a sandbox or mini playground. It may sound stupid but that's how you get people to come. When the kids are there playing around they get used to being there and eventually notice that the racing is great and want to come back as they get older.

Racing is a business. If you don't think it is then you won't be in business for very long. You have to basically run it just like any other business to succeed. A lot of tracks that close down do not realize this. The tracks that are doing well, do.Lol, that $15 deal, if it happened, was only in Cali I believe. Where the cost of living is crazy. Not in Ohio or any other Midwestern state. That’s more than most of these sh!tty warehouses pay in Columbus. And I say good for them.

$15 across the board, yeah right.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Personally, it’s the time involved. I enjoyed Sharon this year and Eldora, but a whole afternoon and evening is shot with the races. With two kids, sports, wife, house to maintain, work, etc, just don’t have the time nor do I wanna set aside the time to go.

I do, but there’s nothing worse than going and it being locked down after qualifying.

I like to relax at home. Have a few Jack n Pepsi’s, Netflix n chill.

[Mason87]

I dont go anymore because my work schedule, I barely see my family and taking them to a track that i live 15 minutes from to see 7 classes with hardly any passing for 6+ hrs isn't gonna happen. I'd rather spend time with my kids at the lake or doing something else.

[RW57]

Good point I have 2 grandsons now one will be 3 in 10 days the other is little over 10 months don't cost me a thing to play with them they live 1/2 mile away race car is 20 miles away what do you think I do.Lol

[MadDad Racing]

Good point I have 2 grandsons now one will be 3 in 10 days the other is little over 10 months don't cost me a thing to play with them they live 1/2 mile away race car is 20 miles away what do you think I do.Lol

Quit eating MickeyD's.. :) Race while you can and get the g'kids in kart racing. :)

[dirtcrazy4u]

I used to go to the races and 20 bucks got me in the gate. I'd get to my seat then go grab some food, 2 fish or hot sausage sandwiches, fries and a drink. After finishing my food, I got my 50/50 tickets, my area auto racing news or speed sport, sometimes both. Go sit and look thru the paper, eating peanuts, and if I needed another drink that 20 dollar bill would cover it.

The funny thing is the purses 20 years ago are the same as today.

So what's the problem in today's racing ? Promotors that are greedy. I still go to select races, but that 20 has been replaced by a 50 to 100.00 dollar bill.

[backspace]

There is no promotion in our area,,,,open gates,,,collect $$,,go home..It sucks to say the least. No colorful bill boards,,no kids carrying checkered flags,,,no souveneirs,,,no programs,,,half of the announcers never tell you anything about the drivers ETC,,car makes,engine used,,sponsors,,their names It is terrible. No rules,,no tech,,all they want is your $30 and you can race what you brought

[Hoosier]

I went to a show Sun. afternoon - advertised for 2:00. By 5:00, we had seen endless qualifying laps, but only one bomber race. And then they announced that there would be a 45 min. (actually over 60) intermission. Various types of BS followed, with Super LMs on the track at 8:00.

In the record heat, the popsicle guy was the only winner.

[play4kps]

It seems that the tracks that invest in a strong weekly program with a few special events still do well. The 4 tracks that come to mind are Gas city, Knoxville, Attica and Williams Grove. Those 4 tracks have a strong weekly turnout, a large group of locals, feeder classes to ensure future development of the bigger classes.

[play4kps]

Another example, Eldora probably has 30 plus modifieds that would race there weekly if the track open in the summer at all. Earl Baltes once said, I make enough off the world 100 to pay all the bills and purses for the entire year.

[kidrock]

Many reasons for low car count and no easy answer to fix it. I'm not saying it can't be turned around but, it's not going to be easy that's for sure. Need to get back to 3 or 4 max classes and promoters like Earl. We don't care who you are. Your going to follow our rules or your going to hit the road kind of promoters. In Rules that might mean car rules or racing formats. Not sure the answer to rein in the cars I will leave that to the experts who know's what it would take to cut cost if that's even possible.

I helped out at a track for a couple of years and watch the promoter try different things to get fans back in the stands to no avail. The track was well prepared on a weekly basis and the show was over in a timely fashion so, that wasn't the problem. UMP ruin the street stocks and the drivers ruin the 4 cylinder class with so much cheating and car counts started to dwindle in both classes. They went from having 20 to 25 street stocks 12 to 16 and 30 to 40 4 cylinder down to 20, then 10. The A mods went from 35 to 12 to 15 and when you loose the car counts you loose the fans. I'm not saying this happened at all track but, it has at the majority of them in this area.

[gator 49]

Some tracks are updated and put on a good show with decent food, fan admission, drivers pay, and GOOD TRACK PREP. (FALS).This kind of tracks will survive and prosper, the others will stay open but struggle and eventually close. A lot of local LM drivers can't afford the cost of racing against top finance drivers for the same purse money 15 yrs. ago. Tracks have to make money to survive but to many prompters are greedy and don't care about putting on a good show for the fans. Look at Nascar its going down big time, and its all about the money. Dirt track racing is still an exciting sport, its losing its fan base because it was suppose to be down home racing. Down home boys can't afford it anymore.

[play4kps]

Gator your dead on, We all might think WOO and Lucas oil series has been great for the sport. It has done just the opposite, it has taken away most of the parity in racing, it caused local teams to spend money they could never recover to compete with the touring guys, leaving the 9 to 5 ers asking themselves why are we investing this kind of money with no real chance of a return on the investment. When does the madness, how high will motors go, whats the next shock package? It has gotten insane. People seem to forget the more drivers racing, the more fans in the stands, All these guys that quit racing probably had 10 to 15 family and friends watching them, when the drivers are gone, the family and friends soon followed.

[mcarter815]

Some tracks are updated and put on a good show with decent food, fan admission, drivers pay, and GOOD TRACK PREP. (FALS).This kind of tracks will survive and prosper, the others will stay open but struggle and eventually close. A lot of local LM drivers can't afford the cost of racing against top finance drivers for the same purse money 15 yrs. ago. Tracks have to make money to survive but to many prompters are greedy and don't care about putting on a good show for the fans. Look at Nascar its going down big time, and its all about the money. Dirt track racing is still an exciting sport, its losing its fan base because it was suppose to be down home racing. Down home boys can't afford it anymore.

If promoters were truly greedy they wouldn't be running a race track.

[Snowmanracr21]

Cost is the number one issue. Everything from admission to pay out to race car costs. There's cheap at home things to do now like Netflix. Number 2 reason is people live busy lives and work way to much to survive and simply don't go out to do things like the races anymore. Its easier to stay home and watch tv or play video games. Number 3 reason is people just aren't car enthusiasts anymore, especially young people. 85% of your regular Saturday night short tracks are hurting these days because of these reasons I think.

[RW57]

At my local track what is called econo bomber has Rockets and other big chassis with 602s. We are talking 30 grand cars racing for 350 to win . Here I am with a home made 3 link clip racing against them. Kinda like taking a knife to a gun fight. The 602 class which was supposed to be the savior for little guys has a Rocket xr1 a Longhorn and a Krptoyinte winning most of the time sometimes a little guy sneaks in a win . I thought the 602 class was gonna use up old late model chassis yeah right. We Racers as a lot are stupid we spend more than we got but theirs always somebody with more money to outrun you then we complain knowing full well if we had it we would spend it to. Bottom line its about money.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

At my local track what is called econo bomber has Rockets and other big chassis with 602s. We are talking 30 grand cars racing for 350 to win . Here I am with a home made 3 link clip racing against them. Kinda like taking a knife to a gun fight. The 602 class which was supposed to be the savior for little guys has a Rocket xr1 a Longhorn and a Krptoyinte winning most of the time sometimes a little guy sneaks in a win . I thought the 602 class was gonna use up old late model chassis yeah right. We Racers as a lot are stupid we spend more than we got but theirs always somebody with more money to outrun you then we complain knowing full well if we had it we would spend it to. Bottom line its about money.

You are 100% correct. Few people can stick to a reasonable budget if they are not winning. Few can work harder or smarter when they think handing over the credit card will produce instant results.

[mcarter815]

Handing over the credit card takes a lot less time than trying to make it yourself, and as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, some racers barely have enough free time to do weekly maintenance let alone fabricate stuff.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Handing over the credit card takes a lot less time than trying to make it yourself, and as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, some racers barely have enough free time to do weekly maintenance let alone fabricate stuff.

Winter leaves a racer with a lot of time to make his car faster. Instead, he just calls Shinston.

[mcarter815]

More likely he sells the car and go does a less stressful hobby.

[Late_Model_Mark]

Lazy promoters who only use Facebook as their way of getting the word out is no help. Tracks who post results solely on Facebook is not helping either.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

[RW57]

I asked about building a clone 602 first tear down on me any time anywhere it's right they reseal other head timing cover oil pan i reassemble without paying some body 5 or 6 hundred plus to put on a dam head gasket.I was told by the former Nesmith owner who I have known for years that I was probably one of the 3 or 4 people in my area that was capable of doing my own engines. My point is I've got a clone hanging on my engine stand that I have less than 1500$ in I want to race but I don't have close to 4 grand for a new 602.The hard working diy racer can not compete anymore against cubic dollars. We are out here we just need some help. Problem is nobody gives a dam about us so we just walk away that's where your cars are that's where your people are that came when they raced.Can it be saved I really don't know.

[3 wide]

Reasons for smaller crowds. 1try to see how many classes they can run like 8.10. 2 under worked an one lane race tracks. 3 lets race all night 2 or 3 am 4 why do promoters this day an time when they run a big super race feel like they have to pay more money in ever class 5 why don't they run super big race one week crates the next week an so on that way you don't wear your race track out an you got something different ever week.

[hillracermanb2j7]

Ok. So let me get this straight half of you on here think you have better things to do than go to the race that's fine I'm sure you do. But dont bitch about car counts and fan counts when you dont go. Then a select few of you want to complain about cost and blame woo/lucas. Ok. I'm to young to remember but I have seen a lot of videos of the wedge cars and I'm pretty sure all that extra stuff was expensive back in the day. The only reason it is more expensive for bodies is because they charge more for the metal they use the same amount today as they did 20 years ago. The only reason it cost more is because they charge more. And one more thing how many of you wanted that special device removed from the 49 car a couple of years ago? Well guess what what it cost him 300$ to do then now cost 3000$. So in short let's complain and blame everyone except our selves. Have a nice day

[Mason87]

I'll bitch as I please and I would love to support my local track and would if they could put on a well managed show. So yes I have better things to do rather than sit at a race track all day long.

[RW57]

I asked about building a clone 602 first tear down on me any time anywhere it's right they reseal other head timing cover oil pan i reassemble without paying some body 5 or 6 hundred plus to put on a dam head gasket.I was told by the former Nesmith owner who I have known for years that I was probably one of the 3 or 4 people in my area that was capable of doing my own engines. My point is I've got a clone hanging on my engine stand that I have less than 1500$ in I want to race but I don't have close to 4 grand for a new 602.The hard working diy racer can not compete anymore against cubic dollars. We are out here we just need some help. Problem is nobody gives a dam about us so we just walk away that's where your cars are that's where your people are that came when they raced.Can it be saved I really don't know.

[3 wide]

Last year I went woo sprint car race at the fairgrounds in Nashville that was the most enjoyable time I had at the race track in a long time they ran 2 classes sprints an open wheels got there about 6 left at 10 it was sold out Saturday night that's 20 thousand you don't have to run everything you can drag in the pits to draw a crowd.

[Jking24]

Ok. So let me get this straight half of you on here think you have better things to do than go to the race that's fine I'm sure you do. But dont bitch about car counts and fan counts when you dont go. Then a select few of you want to complain about cost and blame woo/lucas. Ok. I'm to young to remember but I have seen a lot of videos of the wedge cars and I'm pretty sure all that extra stuff was expensive back in the day. The only reason it is more expensive for bodies is because they charge more for the metal they use the same amount today as they did 20 years ago. The only reason it cost more is because they charge more. And one more thing how many of you wanted that special device removed from the 49 car a couple of years ago? Well guess what what it cost him 300$ to do then now cost 3000$. So in short let's complain and blame everyone except our selves. Have a nice dayThe 300$ part you speak of was on the 6 car not the 49 but that doesn't change the point you make

[nc mudcat]

"The only reason it cost more is because they charge more." That explains it all. May i use that?

[play4kps]

A lot of people are missing the point about classes, one reason for so many classes at some tracks are horrible car count, at some tracks it takes 6 or 8 divisions to get 30 or 40 cars. uggghhhh

[Mason87]

I think a track should offer only 4 classes such as a rookie class for all the people who wanna try it, a sportsman class or super stock, modified and lates crates limited or what ever. I'm sure the guys that wanna race in that area will build one of the 4.

[kazual]

One person complains that he didn’t get his money’s worth if races are complete by 10:00. Next person is unhappy if it runs past 10 o’clock. Welcome to America in the 21st century.

[Fully Torqued]

4m.potato. Then again, most of you in the racing community are potatoes. Hang on to your buttholes. America as we know it is going down and isn't coming back. This was the last free place on earth, and we ruined it. Dirt racing above street stocks is for the elites. They're gonna get their payback for not caring about anyone but themselves. Prepare yourself for communism.

[dmr37]

4m.potato. Then again, most of you in the racing community are potatoes. Hang on to your buttholes. America as we know it is going down and isn't coming back. This was the last free place on earth, and we ruined it. Dirt racing above street stocks is for the elites. They're gonna get their payback for not caring about anyone but themselves. Prepare yourself for communism.

The Stinking Commies will sap and impurify all of our precious racing fluids

[weatherman85]

The response to this post is a perfect example of the issue. No one can or is willing to agree on anything. Whenever someone throws out an idea to attempt to fix the issue, some get behind it while others cry and whine about it. The sport is slowly following in the same foot steps as local short track asphalt racing. Costs in it sky rocketed and have so as well in dirt racing. Weekly racing is slowly bleeding to death.

[heinen81]

The best a person can offer to this good conversation, is their personal opinion/situation. I am 40 now, and went to races since I was 12. Used to watch the weather all week nervous as all heck they would rain out. From 15-18 I crewed on a late model. Once I turned 18, I drove a grand national 2 years. I went back to crew for 7 years after a hiatus, on a 410 travelling team. Once the team folded, and I lived across the street from the local dirt track that ran steel 360 sprints (30-35 cars) Super Lates (16-20) Grand Nationals (20) and sport mods (20-25) I haven't went to 5 races in 2 years. Like many now, its about instant gratification and what's the return on the time investment. I don't want to be at a track 6 hours watching packing, qualifying and 2 divisions I don't care about. If it were just sprints and lates and I was sitting down at 6 and in the car by 9:30... I wouldn't miss a week. Too many divisions and they drag the shows out too long to sell food and beer. I just follow the night on social media updates now. I lose interest, patience.. whatever. I'll stream a WOO or Lucas event over the local show almost every time now days. I love racing, but local shows just don't provide enough excitement to invest 5-6 hours sitting in one spot anymore. Tracks that don't provide passing anymore like they did 20 years ago, plays a big part in that as well. Same with starting the fast guys in the first 4 rows. There might be 20 lates on the track, but only 4-5 up front have a legitimate shot at winning equipment wise. Boring.

[mcarter815]

The response to this post is a perfect example of the issue. No one can or is willing to agree on anything. Whenever someone throws out an idea to attempt to fix the issue, some get behind it while others cry and whine about it. The sport is slowly following in the same foot steps as local short track asphalt racing. Costs in it sky rocketed and have so as well in dirt racing. Weekly racing is slowly bleeding to death.

You'll never take the cost out of racing unless you make the cars 100% spec.

[waaac77]

Reasons for smaller crowds. 1try to see how many classes they can run like 8.10. 2 under worked an one lane race tracks. 3 lets race all night 2 or 3 am 4 why do promoters this day an time when they run a big super race feel like they have to pay more money in ever class 5 why don't they run super big race one week crates the next week an so on that way you don't wear your race track out an you got something different ever week.

Something that I haven't heard brought up yet but makes a ton of sense is your #4 example. The special pays more and that's what fans came to see. They need fillers but that is just what they are, fillers. The fillers are there to provide modest entertainment so people don't get bored.

[Rocky]

Turn on an NFL game, there’s big tarps over huge sections of seats at more than a couple.NASCAR and Indycar have the same issues at every race except the respective 500’s. I hear concerts are feeling the pinch too. It’s not so much a dirt racing pinch as a live entertainment pinch. People are just staying home and if I was smart enough to fix it, I would go work for the NFL or MLB or NASCAR or something.

[latemodelman]

Rocky its easy to fix like EARL BALTES said one time about 10 years ago when I met him on a Saturday after the 2009 World 100 as he was leaving the press box. Its all about the PROMOTION and doing things that make the fans say hey I wanna go see this. You gotta make it entertaining. Like he told me that's why he had Poncho Carter dress up as an ape and get married to another Ape. Also he held Harness races as well as other races. He also did the 500 lapper for sprints. Its making the fans want more and they will come back.

[ride height]

Too many classes. Takes forever for show to get done, and people get sick of that. Payouts are WAY behind the cost curve. It’s a train wreck right now. Sad. Racing is in trouble. Real trouble. When’s the last time you heard a radio ad for a Saturday race? Me....decades ago. No promotion. Teenagers barely know how to put gas in a car much less which end of a screwdriver to hold onto.

[Rocky]

You do understand that asking everybody to be the legendary Earl Baltes is a bit much, right? Remember, Earl was a band leader. He came into racing from the entertainment business, not the other way around.

[kazual]

We are not a car culture any more, not like the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Lots of competition for your entertainment dollar that allows people to sit at home, and critically, costs less as well. We are fortunate to have two well run weekly programs within an hour’s drive. Not everyone is so lucky. At the same time we’ve lost four weekly tracks all within an hour and a half over the last dozen years. The one thing that gets me is how promoters can ignore the ladies and children, especially bathroom conditions. And if a track dorks around and takes my time for granted, I.E. drags the show out, I’m done with them.

[Bloomerdirtking]

100% agree with kazual and the culture of today. When i grew up my city of Muncie had Borg Warner transmission, a Chevy plant and a Delco plant. New Castle a Chrysler plant to our south and Anderson had Delco and Guide Lamp plants. It was a car nuts heaven. My dad, my uncles, my grandpa, their friends all had good jobs. All had killer cars. Everywhere was Cudas, Road Runners, Chevelles, Corvettes, Mustangs, GTO's, etc. Kids couldn't wait to get those jobs and the cars that came with them. Then the merry go-round came to a halt, and so did the culture with it. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) shame.

[zyoung25]

The car crowd is out there, it's just not the same as it was back then. I wasn't around in those days, but boy do I wish was. It seems like the younger crowd is more into foreign or diesel stuff than the domestic muscle. You wouldn't believe the kids that are out there that don't know what a hemi is.

[WisWildManFan]

I would love to see some weekly tracks do a claim on the winner's car in the lower divisions... or if you win 80% of the features in a given year in a lower division you have to move up. I would love to get a car on the track but financially it doesn't make sense to go spend 8-10k on a car to run for $200 to win. Not to mention there will be a guy that spends 20k to win that $200 that i will never ever beat unless he wrecks or has an issue. I'm too competitive to spend the money to run 2nd every week. Hobby mods were supposed to be a good beginner class but that has turned into a joke as well. Put a claim on street stocks and hobby mods to where people won't want to outspend the rest of the field by double.

[kazual]

Not sure efforts to quell spending more than you can win will matter much. Fishing tournament guys spend many thousands on boats, tackle, travel, or whatever to fish for a few hundred dollars. Horse show people spend mega wads to mostly compete for a trophy. All in the name of winning, cost be d——-d! If not being able to win as much as you spend would make a difference we would have already seen it in racing.

[ShawnStreet]

I can only speak for myself, but there was a time when I was at a dirt track every single weekend. When my wife and I had our daughters, I couldn’t wait to take them. However, when I did start taking them, they were sound asleep by the time any racing got started. They quickly figured out that sitting in the same spot, watching the water truck/packing truck make 600 laps and then falling asleep was not a good way to spend a Saturday night. For the past five years, I’ve been the pastor of a church and when you have somewhere to be on Sunday mornings, spending all night at a dirt track just doesn’t happen anymore.

Prior to becoming a pastor, I worked in various media outlets, including public relations. Honestly, having that background and seeing how our sport promotes itself has done more to kill my obsession for the sport than any 3am, caution filled, one lane race ever could. I guess my #1 complaint with that is, why do two or three guys design, maintain and update every single website in dirt racing? Why does every single press release say the exact same thing other than the individual names being different? Creativity is dead and it is taking the sport with it to the grave.

[WisWildManFan]

valid examples kazual but I still think money is more important in motor sports compared to anything else.

[RiffRaf67]

Rocky's right. It aint just dirt tracks that have a decline in live attendance, saw a stat yesterday that MLB was down 14% this year. Also read last year that overall, college football was down 30%, with only the big schools staying even. We've seen it in all the other motor sports as well: Indy car first, NHRA and then NapCar.

Its not just a dirt track problem and I dont think its a promotion problem either, when ALL venues are struggling to gain attendance. I know there are people here that will cite all kinds of statistics to the contrary, but I feel its too easy to stay home and stream any of these live events (or watch them tomorrow) and that's what hurts the attendance. PPV and video replays are not going away so lets hope those services are going to be enough to keep the events occurring in the first place. Dirt doesnt have the TV revenue that the other sports have so its going to be especially tough to keep the doors open in the future.

I hang out with my friends at the race track. My millennial son hangs out with his on the computer. Every now and then me and my buddies will band together and rent a PPV together. Every now and then my son and his friends will go out to eat together....

[fairlaniac]

People have found more money and time to put out for their smart phones. A few years ago you got a free phone. no people are paying up to $1000 for a smart phone. Add your 50G plan and people have no money. Now people spend time on Facebook. You can check on your phone the amount of time spent on an app. You'd be surprised at the amount of time and avid Facebook users puts in each week. Typically more time than a three hour race evening. Not just racing but many spectator events are down. I'll bet some people spend more time here in a week than the time to attend a real race. Cell/Smart phone is why in my opinion.

[Mason87]

You guys are right on the other sports losing attendance, the difference to me is that local racing is still affordable 10 to 1f for a regular show and 30 for a special isn't bad. So they should be able to promote, advertise and put on a well managed show and the people would come back. The reason nfl and others are down their greed has priced the average fan out with outrageous ticket and food prices.

[One Man Gang]

It’s all Dog eat Dog basically, especially when Quarterbacks make a million dollars a game, baseball players signing 300 million dollar contracts, NBA players getting paid 200 million to dribble a ball up and down the court and then race cars costing a life savings to run a year. They making the money but it’s sapping the he!! out of our wallets to watch it. I’ll keep going as long as tracks are open and I can get there but it’s costing more and more every year to see less.

[kazual]

You may well be correct. There’s something novel about the passion racers have for their sport. Good thread and discussion.

[waaac77]

Since it's all about the money would there be any way that weekly tracks and national tours could incorporate a salary cap type of deal where it would level out the field a bit while also avoiding running spec cars like NASCRAP?

[dirtcrazy4u]

WOW. If you read what some of you have posted it's no wonder what's wrong. From communism , you sir need help, to just about all the most off the wall chit I have ever read. I think the most obvious is fans want a 3 class night of racing good food and get it over early. The promotors that don't get it. Stop going. Myself, I'm done with screven, great racing, but it is the most miss managed place I have ever been to in 50 yrs of attending dirt racing. WoO first heat never hits the track on any scheduled time and they want you to spend money on there food. Pass, my choice.

[ShawnStreet]

To add to the discussion about other forms of entertainment suffering as well.. I think it goes back to what I said earlier, creativity is dead. Movies are suffering. But honestly, how many completely original movies have been released in the past few years? Everything is either a complete rip off of something that came before it, a reboot or a sequel. Concerts are suffering because everyone is trying to do the show that KISS did in 1976. I mean, does country music need pyro and dudes flying around the stage? College football looks like it is gonna come down between Clemson, ‘Bama, Oklahoma, Ohio State and/or Georgia. The same as last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. The NFL used to have bitter rivals fighting for the big trophy. Raiders/Steelers, Cowboys/49ers, etc. Now you have the Patriots and everyone else fighting for second. Like the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that. We’ve seen this before, so we are seeking something we’ve never seen before. Not to make this political, but that was why Trump hit a homerun with so many people. It was new and something we’ve never really saw before. Promoters that promote and bring in new ideas will succeed.

[JimBo]

Great discussion here and some very valid points except for the obvious sarcastic comment blaming it on communist lol. Sure the cost for weekly racers is out of range for most. To many classes, promoters are lazy, bla bla bla. Weekly shows are dead in my area for Late Models. Meanwhile I have a big screen TV with a stereo hooked up to it and I can sit in my Lazy Boy enjoying a cold beer from the nearby fridge and watch racing on MavTV, Lucas Oil TV, or stream a LM Dirt on Dirt broadcast. Or I could drive an hour to the local track and watch B Mods, EMods, 5-10 pure stocks and 5 or 6 Late Models and be back home in bed by 12:30-1:00 AM. I use to be go weekly but I would just as soon stay at home and hit 2 or 3 Lucas or WOO shows a year 3-4 hours from my house. I guess I'm part of the problem of low fan counts.

[Rocky]

I had a big manifesto planned out. Instead I recorded a 12 minute video of you wanna watch.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HkKNTNR-uY8

[Tek2747]

Just my $0.02 from the perspective of someone in their early 30's. I think wages just haven't kept up with the costs of daily living. In my household childcare and healthcare costs are astronomical for us. Many of my peers don't earn enough to be at the track on a weekly basis and those that do work so many hours I doubt they ever have the time to get there. Another observation is it seems that when I was a kid half if not more of the hardware being raced came from the salvage yard. Today every bit of it is from the racing shop. Is there any way you could pull stuff from a wrecked Ford Fusion Fusion or Chevy Impala to race? I doubt it.

[TurboTurtle17]

just wait till hyper inflation hits gentlemen...... ;) , Think things are bad now, nothing to what will come in the near/distant ''Future''..... Enjoy that ''sport'' while it last.

[nc mudcat]

My local asphalt track is doing just fine. Bowman Gray Stadium basically has a cult following. 15,000 fans every week. For 20 years they charged $10 to get in, went to $12 this year. Still have ladies' nights and the girls get in for $2. They start at 8:00 on the dot, and a curfew is in place, so they are completely done by 11:30, after running 5 races with full fields, sometimes with a demo derby or a chain race. If they can do this, so can other tracks. Want to see what makes a track work? Go see a race there. For me the racing stinks, but 15,000 people disagree with me.

My local dirt track charges $15 for a 5-race program, headlined by 604 crates with 10 cars on a good night. They say they start at 7, really start at 8, take a long intermission, and get you headed home at 1:00 on a good night. That package will lead only to bankruptcy.

[play4kps]

I just got MAV tv and I'll be honest with you, Im a dirt late model and non wing sprint guy only, I never cared for winged sprints, but after watching about 4 winged sprint car races over the weekend, its a whole lot more exciting than super lates, they are using the whole track to try to find a line. I was suprised at how good it was.

[mcarter815]

My local asphalt track is doing just fine. Bowman Gray Stadium basically has a cult following. 15,000 fans every week. For 20 years they charged $10 to get in, went to $12 this year. Still have ladies' nights and the girls get in for $2. They start at 8:00 on the dot, and a curfew is in place, so they are completely done by 11:30, after running 5 races with full fields, sometimes with a demo derby or a chain race. If they can do this, so can other tracks. Want to see what makes a track work? Go see a race there. For me the racing stinks, but 15,000 people disagree with me.

My local dirt track charges $15 for a 5-race program, headlined by 604 crates with 10 cars on a good night. They say they start at 7, really start at 8, take a long intermission, and get you headed home at 1:00 on a good night. That package will lead only to bankruptcy.

It's funny that you say they sometimes add a demo derby to the end of the night, because going by what I see on YouTube, all of the races are demo derbies. It's amazing how much money gets thrown away at Bowman Gray.

[nc mudcat]

It's funny that you say they sometimes add a demo derby to the end of the night, because going by what I see on YouTube, all of the races are demo derbies. It's amazing how much money gets thrown away at Bowman Gray.

No argument there, but the pits and the stands are full, so they are doing something right.

[Rocky]

No argument there, but the pits and the stands are full, so they are doing something right.

Hopefully you get a chance to come to the Race for the Kids at County Line. It’s a little ways from Winston Salem, but it’s a race I really like over near I-95. I-95 challenge vs FUEL. Plus 5k to win Modified too. Not actually related to the post. Just a reminder that it’s that time of the year.

[Rocky]

Also thanks for so many of you for watching my video 40+ views is a lot for a guy that’s not really a YouTube creator guy.