Ray cook and WoO Droop rule?

[Buzz]

With all of these rules that have been being adopted by some different series to keep the cars down wouldn’t it be all around better to just take the spoilers off and enforce the rake rule on the deck? Wouldn’t no spoiler make “Jacking the LR up in the air” less of a advantage/way to get some drive?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yes, it would unhook the cars and greatly reduce the advantage of hiking to the moon. Currently, the series enjoy writing mundane rules more than saving late models.

[Jking24]

That wouldn't be very good for midwest sheetmetal......

[Buzz]

They can just start making orange roofs

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

They can just start making orange roofs

They'd have to do b pillars. Roofs are composite and another component that was allowed to become an aero device once companies began selling them.

[Rocket]

The problem with these cars is simple. SHOCKS!! It all comes back to that

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The problem with these cars is simple. SHOCKS!! It all comes back to that

I fail to comprehend your argument. Shocks are a relatively simple device.

[fastford]

then why do shocks cost so much ? im hearing of some paying over 10 grand or more for a full set.....

[Jking24]

then why do shocks cost so much ? im hearing of some paying over 10 grand or more for a full set.....I think set and package get misused while you might have a set of six shocks for your car. A complete package may included multiple rf,rr and lr shocks for varying conditions/ track configurations. Most guys don't need the whole package such as one that tube traveling guys do. But racing is a monkey see monkey do sport. If someone hears jd or Sheppard has twelve shocks each they want the exact same thing. Weather they know how and when to use what shock or not. Because we all know it's the special device they have that makes them better

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

then why do shocks cost so much ? im hearing of some paying over 10 grand or more for a full set.....

Monkey see, monkey do. I'm all for it. Good shocks are being given away these days. Lol

[Jking24]

Monkey see, monkey do. I'm all for it. Good shocks are being given away these days. LolAgree 100% master's them guys buy high and sell low when it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread right out of the box. Bought my shocks dirt cheap from one of my shock guys ex clients that thought he wasn't giving him the "good stuff"

[fastford]

this is true , i know where there is a car right now with some old first gen afco blues that were basically given to the guy that have been upgraded by jerry link for 500 bucks that are flying , i have a set to BTW that i would not trade for any right now.....

[CCHIEF]

Used Ohlins can be had for a song, and their excellent shocks! Some new cars require “non standard” lengths shocks, so mounts may need modifications to use them and others effectively.

[Rocket]

MBR, sorry you fail to comprehend lol. You could only do so much to a car's handling and attitude when you bolted a set of Afcos(94's ,76's) on your car. Now the cars handle so good you have to worry more about downforce with the bodies. Nose on the ground left rear high up (hence the droop rule). I've raced late models since 1994 and that was the biggest game changer that I seen. But that's my opinion.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

MBR, sorry you fail to comprehend lol. You could only do so much to a car's handling and attitude when you bolted a set of Afcos(94's ,76's) on your car. Now the cars handle so good you have to worry more about downforce with the bodies. Nose on the ground left rear high up (hence the droop rule). I've raced late models since 1994 and that was the biggest game changer that I seen. But that's my opinion.

I don't know anyone running old 1300 series afcos. We've had actual, good shocks in dlm racing for over a decade and a half now. Those shock are quite capable of holding a car in any contortion you desire. Many of those shocks are now giveaway price. (Don't have the latest brand sticker on the side.) I won't even make the argument that holding the car in a certain attitude is giving away a lot of suspension capability. Fixing that is yet to come...

I've been in this game longer than you, fyi.

The biggest game changers were the realization that you actually need a working lr suspension, the relationship between antisquat off the corner and prosquat into the corner, and non-linear thinking on wheel rates. (Just because you soften the rf spring doesn't mean it has to be softer at 4" of travel.)

[Rocket]

That's exactly my point. I think you're just wanting to argue here sweetheart. You have the droop rule because of the shocks nowadays. We didn't have the fronts pinned down 15 years ago. Racing was racing. Just look at the bodies from then compared to now

[Buzz]

I believe the technology and spring smashers and all the different combos of stacks for spring have hurt more so then shocks, and I think there is so much miss information that is available to be given and someone think they are getting help is another big thing.

[fastford]

buzz , its defiantly a combo of both , and 15 years ago , a spec motor could still win a race , but with shock and spring tech today , in the slick , the big engine has to much of an advantage even with a weight break....what you think " SWEET HEART " .....just kidding MBR......

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That's exactly my point. I think you're just wanting to argue here sweetheart. You have the droop rule because of the shocks nowadays. We didn't have the fronts pinned down 15 years ago. Racing was racing. Just look at the bodies from then compared to now

You have the droop rule because wedge cars are faster than 1990 cars. The bodies getting out of hand is why we race the cars that way. And there are other ways to get the same attitude aside from running ratcheting shocks. That said, a decent old monotube shock can ratchet all you want with minor parts changes. The body drives the racing strategy. Not a $7000 set of shocks.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

buzz , its defiantly a combo of both , and 15 years ago , a spec motor could still win a race , but with shock and spring tech today , in the slick , the big engine has to much of an advantage even with a weight break....what you think " SWEET HEART " .....just kidding MBR......

Fast Ford,

15 years ago, you could win a feature at Florence Speedway Ky with an iron 406. Today you can't. The reason is about 900# of additional downforce. LR suspension gains are part of it too, but the rest of the suspension is compromised for downforce racing.

[Rocket]

The 7000.00 shocks are why we do the bodies the way we do. Look at photos of the cars attitude in the early to mid 2000's and look now. Everyone use to run a front lr (pop-up) shock in front of the birdcage to keep the car loaded. Not now it's a henderance. Everyone's program picked up when they bolted on that first set of Integrals or Ohlins or whatever brand. And has been on fire every since with stacks,rubbers, now smashers. I know mine did.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The 7000.00 shocks are why we do the bodies the way we do. Look at photos of the cars attitude in the early to mid 2000's and look now. Everyone use to run a front lr (pop-up) shock in front of the birdcage to keep the car loaded. Not now it's a henderance. Everyone's program picked up when they bolted on that first set of Integrals or Ohlins or whatever brand. And has been on fire every since with stacks,rubbers, now smashers. I know mine did.

You have the cause and effect backwards. I haven't run a front LR shock for almost 10 years. Yes, those ohlins were a huge step up from the 1300 afcos. And they will still get the job done.

People realized they had a body to race as a downforce car. They valved shocks to race as a downforce car. I have Ohlins I use to race as a downforce car right now. Then sure, people started taking the body further and further because Lucas and woo didn't care. They were worried about Rumleys extra heim joints.

[fastford]

do you really think you could take a set of 1990 oil shocks , with the best tech for that day and bolt them on a car of to day with all this down force built into the body and be as fast as modern day shock tech with just the down force from the body ?

[Rocket]

You already know that answer fastford. If you could we would be saving thousands and doing it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

do you really think you could take a set of 1990 oil shocks , with the best tech for that day and bolt them on a car of to day with all this down force built into the body and be as fast as modern day shock tech with just the down force from the body ?

No. Those shocks were too heat dependent and other issues. I didn't make that claim. I did claim shocks that's been around since 2005ish can be all you need.

[CCHIEF]

then why do shocks cost so much ? im hearing of some paying over 10 grand or more for a full set..... That >10K "package" likely and should includes time on, or technology from a pull down rig included in that $#. Thing is some of the crack dealer's out there get you smokin their blend crack... on your $.... and their using YOU for R&D. You can't buy yourself driving talent, although many try to circumvent that thru the aforementioned crack dealers! ...I now digress

[grt74]

shocks are not that expensive if you learn them and how to build them, its when you are completely depending on someone to build yours that it becomes expensive
a set of used penske's that are used 2000, revalve or a piston 100-500 per set, done
people really need to learn to work on there stuff

[fastford]

No. Those shocks were too heat dependent and other issues. I didn't make that claim. I did claim shocks that's been around since 2005ish can be all you need.

sorry about that , i misunderstood your earlier post , any way there are people spending upwards of 10 grand on shock/tech packages , and as for working on your own car , i fully agree , h3ll , we never put much more than what there spending on shocks in our whole car , and i use to rebuild our own shocks , back when no one had dyno,s and such , now , its cheaper to pay some one that is up to date and has the equipment and knowledge to do it.....

[MachineMasters]

Shocks are the biggest misunderstood item in racing because most people don't understand how they work. Other than the high-speed shaft from penske and jri, and the introduction of the air shock to the LRB shock, there have not been any notable improvements to shocks for dirt late models in the last 10 years.

Sure, there have been some new pistons here and there, but nothing that has dramatically improved performance, on or off track. Prove me wrong ;)

[ZERO25]

You have the cause and effect backwards. I haven't run a front LR shock for almost 10 years. Yes, those ohlins were a huge step up from the 1300 afcos. And they will still get the job done.

Years ago, Shy had built us a lrr with no front shock. We dropped down a class and couldn't run dbl adj's. So, I sent it to another shock company for them to duplicate it. Their reply was, "where did you get it and we cant duplicate that". I thought to myself......I think Im dealing with the wrong shock company!

Obvously, all shock companies are not equal!