raised rail/raised rack question??

[dirty white boy]

can older non raised rail late model still be cooperative in a budget 602 non adj shock class? 1 track big 1/2 mile with lot of banking other track is 1/3 mile with moderate banking, will be a newbie driver and team. ant expecting to dominate, just wanta keep up with the pack!!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

can older non raised rail late model still be cooperative in a budget 602 non adj shock class? 1 track big 1/2 mile with lot of banking other track is 1/3 mile with moderate banking, will be a newbie driver and team. ant expecting to dominate, just wanta keep up with the pack!!

Page recently put on a show in a 604 race with one.

[CCHIEF]

Depends on what you consider old. Slick tracks will be the challenge. If you could get someone smart, with experience, to hands on help you, the learning curve could be greatly reduced. So....Yes it can keep up, but the condition of and components on it can be a BIG variable and challenge for an all rookie team.

[dirty white boy]

a 00 bwrc updated to a 07 with 35 nights on it since new. and a 00 stinger thats been updated as much as it can without clipping it. when new it was run 2 seasons and sat in shop for back up till 08 when it was updated an run a few times then back to setting in the corner! both cars are in great shape and im thinking thay be real good for driver/owner/crew to learn learn on and not be out of a lot of money when we tare them up during this learning curve! or am i crazy??

[CCHIEF]

I don’t know those cars....I personally would start with a much newer car than that. A bluegray rocket with 15 updates is as old as I would throw my money at, as far as Rockets go. Their selling for a song right now!

[grt74]

the answer is yes, we recently took a 12 warrior and smoked the field, it was so bad they looked at everything (they thought we were cheating) and yes we beat new cars
you don't need all the traction that is built into the new cars, it will actually bog the car down too much, we found this out in the 604's, the 602's I'm sure will be worse
i like the rules at our local track, they can run just about any tire, so they buy our used stuff

[fastford]

its not just built in traction that makes newer set ups fast , it is the speed they carry through the turns , and this is where you will be at a disadvantage you are not gone make up with that old of a chassis.....JMO.....

[Dirtslinger20]

DWB.... Didn’t you just win a 09 BW that had been updated in 12? There’s way too much BWRC knowledge in your area to try to start off with a old a$$ Stinger. I’m pretty sure there are 2 of the exact cars than won almost every 602 race there at your local track. PM me if you wanna sell it!

[dirty white boy]

yes i did, its a 2013 bwrc, bare chassis! already got the other 2 cars and another 97 bwrc! the 00 an 97 are full rollers as well as the stinger. id rather start with the 13 but i ant got the money to buy every thing to build a bare chassis and afraid that by the time i could get it rolling it be as irrelevant as the rest of my junk, and all that knowledge round here says nothing on the others will work on the 13!! got every thing to run ether of the other 3 i got! just wanta turn some laps and learn what i can if i can and not be in the way! oh yeah , them 2 icon's that won so much have been replaced with newer long horns for 2020! dirtslinger20 are you brad or brandon???

[dirtdobberrr]

Can an older chassis without the raised rf rail win a race? yes Can one of these older chassis, with a very knowledgeable crew and driver sometimes win several races in a row at one certain track? yes Can one of these older chassis be absolutely competitive at 4-5 track? probably not When you buy one of these new chassis, you should be getting the best help available. Heck, if you buy a capital chassis, you can call Shane Clanton or Marshall Green from the track and they will help you make the car better. If you are trying to run one of the older chassis against this new stuff, the driver better be up on the wheel, and somebody on that team better have ALOT if knowhow. I help several small teams, and they all are very underfunded. I feel you pain, trust me.

[President Clinton]

So if all these new cars are so much faster..... are the lap times showing it????? In our area the lap times haven’t really changed in years......but the cars are faster........

[fastford]

you cant base lap times on that one perfect lap when the track is at optimum condition , most races on over in the year are run on junky , slick tracks , this is where the newer chassis and there set up pays off the most.....

[grt74]

understanding set ups are the key, no matter which car you have

[CCHIEF]

you cant base lap times on that one perfect lap when the track is at optimum condition , most races on over in the year are run on junky , slick tracks , this is where the newer chassis and there set up pays off the most..... Spot on FastFord!

[CCHIEF]

you don't need all the traction that is built into the new cars, it will actually bog the car down too much, we found this out in the 604's, the 602's I'm sure will be worse i like the rules at our local track, they can run just about any tire, so they buy our used stuff Definitely not so, if you know how to free car up, corner speed is Paramount with crate engine cars, as is consistent fast laps... lap after lap....and quick off the start. Run any loaded field touring series crate races? If so how did you fare feature time. Not being a jerk, serious question.

[Krooser]

I just updated my old '03 WISSOTA Mastersbilt...raised front x-member/rack, raised right rail, new bolt on four bar brackets. Bought everything from Tader Masters.



This chassis has 4 partial seasons under it's belt then parked in the garage since '08.

I just hope the over the hill driver has enough talent left in the tank.

[dirty white boy]

krooser im hoping you and that mopar'ed masterbeater dose well this season!!

learning setup biggest thing im after right now!

[President Clinton]

you cant base lap times on that one perfect lap when the track is at optimum condition , most races on over in the year are run on junky , slick tracks , this is where the newer chassis and there set up pays off the most.....

Take a look at the big races,,, C J Rayburn pointed it out in an interview a few months ago,, Eldora,East Bay,etc.... are not faster and common sense says they all should be now that cars are “faster”

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

CJ is missing a big issue, they don't run on the correct tire compounds anymore. That is a big hindrance. Yet even though 3 corners of your car must have LM20 on a black surface for 100 laps, the feature times at Eldora are indeed better than 10 years ago. Quite a bit better, in fact.

CJ has done a lot in this sport. I like the guy too. But, everything he says isn't true just because he said it.

[Jking24]

Also the surface and configuration at many tracks has changed. So its typically not a apple's to apple's comparison. But their definitely going faster

[fastford]

CJ is missing a big issue, they don't run on the correct tire compounds anymore. That is a big hindrance. Yet even though 3 corners of your car must have LM20 on a black surface for 100 laps, the feature times at Eldora are indeed better than 10 years ago. Quite a bit better, in fact.

CJ has done a lot in this sport. I like the guy too. But, everything he says isn't true just because he said it.

you are right MR , i think the world of ole CJ and he contributed greatly to the sport , but technology has passed him by......

[billetbirdcage]

can older non raised rail late model still be cooperative in a budget 602 non adj shock class? 1 track big 1/2 mile with lot of banking other track is 1/3 mile with moderate banking, will be a newbie driver and team. ant expecting to dominate, just wanta keep up with the pack!!

I think the key here is the newbie driver and team. Not sure that means totally new or just new to the class but if experience is really low then I would run the older car without a second thought. Do some basic upgrades and get some seat time and experience and not tear up a newer car.

This is assuming you already have the older car or found one dirt cheap.

[grt74]

so I've got a crazy question, so everyone thinks they need to travel 4-5 inches to win, sorry guys it just isn't so

there are ways to load the rr with out shoving the right front threw the fender, lol,
ill leave all alone, fun to read though

it goes back to good notes and working on your car

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

so I've got a crazy question, so everyone thinks they need to travel 4-5 inches to win, sorry guys it just isn't so

there are ways to load the rr with out shoving the right front threw the fender, lol,
ill leave all alone, fun to read though

it goes back to good notes and working on your car

Sure you can. But it don't get the blade in the same place and the shape of the load curve matters too.

[grt74]

Sure you can. But it don't get the blade in the same place and the shape of the load curve matters too.

masters we have posted alot together, i do value your opinion, while most don't know how or have the drive to do it

you can take an old car, build the body to get it in stance and tweak here and there, while i agree that no you can't take an old car out that has not had the work done and win, you can however do the work and win,

in the end you save money because you can buy an old car cheap and tweak it, it will work for the crate class, supers you better have your chit together

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

masters we have posted alot together, i do value your opinion, while most don't know how or have the drive to do it

you can take an old car, build the body to get it in stance and tweak here and there, while i agree that no you can't take an old car out that has not had the work done and win, you can however do the work and win,

in the end you save money because you can buy an old car cheap and tweak it, it will work for the crate class, supers you better have your chit together

We have an 03 Masters. I hear ya. But almost no one is going to do anything with a car that old but race it. I thought we were talking about leaving it as is. I agree if you are going to fix it.

[ZERO25]

CJ is missing a big issue, they don't run on the correct tire compounds anymore. That is a big hindrance. Yet even though 3 corners of your car must have LM20 on a black surface for 100 laps, the feature times at Eldora are indeed better than 10 years ago. Quite a bit better, in fact.

CJ has done a lot in this sport. I like the guy too. But, everything he says isn't true just because he said it.

Yep, put the supers at eastbay back on 1100's and watch the lap times drop faster than the current stock market!

[Krooser]

krooser im hoping you and that mopar'ed masterbeater dose well this season!!

learning setup biggest thing im after right now!

That's a Studebaker I'm running... don't go starting any rumors that might force me to go underground with my operation.

[fastford]

grt , you are not factoring in the control of rear steer with these new set ups , which i think is as important as any thing , they have more speed through the turn and by hardly running any stagger , you have more straightaway speed , im not trying to discourage any one , and the OP says he just wants to keep up and that is achievable but thats all , and that old chassis of page,s every one refers to is no where near the same chassis as it started out as.......

[Krooser]

What about running the LRF shock? I see some still run it...some do not.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

grt , you are not factoring in the control of rear steer with these new set ups , which i think is as important as any thing , they have more speed through the turn and by hardly running any stagger , you have more straightaway speed , im not trying to discourage any one , and the OP says he just wants to keep up and that is achievable but thats all , and that old chassis of page,s every one refers to is no where near the same chassis as it started out as.......

You saying Page lied? He said that car he drove at Volusia was unmodified.

[fastford]

i have saw the car , i guess ones idea of unmodified is different from another , i would not necessarily call it lying though , he is like most and is not gone tell you every thing , nor will I ........

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

i have saw the car , i guess ones idea of unmodified is different from another , i would not necessarily call it lying though , he is like most and is not gone tell you every thing , nor will I ........

He may have specifically said the crossmember and frame rail. I forget for sure now.

[dirty white boy]

any body know the difference in a 13 and a icon bwrc? raising a rail an a rack dont seem to be to big a deal if thats the big difference in old an new besides bolt on parts.