Rear oversteer

[ZERO25]

As some setups are now calling for 0-1/2 inch of rear stagger, have we reached the maximum?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Another interesting topic. A Kryptonite looks to have 2" more than an xr1. If your car doesn't settle on corner entry, do you have steer?

[drgracer392]

my thoughts are with MB racer.....

[fastford]

maybe not the maximum , but with the rear steer these new cars can gain , there is not as much stagger needed , there are 3 cars that i personally know and none are over 1 inch stagger , 3 different chassis and on a given night , any of the three can win , stagger was critical 15 years ago and still is to an extent , just dont take near as much , which definitely helps straightaway speed , JMO.......

[Jking24]

we've ran and won with it all over the place 5" all the way down to zero. I don't think theirs any magic their its just another variable effecting the overall handling. The main reason we got away from ruining more was tire wear on long runs especially in open motor stuff

[ZERO25]

Another interesting topic. A Kryptonite looks to have 2" more than an xr1. If your car doesn't settle on corner entry, do you have steer?

One of my buddies ran 2nd in a recent big race in an xr1. Shinnston said to run 0-1/2 inch!

He had 1/2!

[TheJet-09]

How are guys going about getting that little stagger? Run a 90 (or 28.5) on the RR?

[billetbirdcage]

Another interesting topic. A Kryptonite looks to have 2" more than an xr1. If your car doesn't settle on corner entry, do you have steer?

Even if the LR never moves from full hike position all the way around the track, the steer is changing way more then most people would know.

I'll leave it at that

[TwistedFrame21]

How much more steer are the rockets running opposed from years past?

[Kromulous]

Are you talking 1/2" in roll out or in diameter? Roll out, a 1/2" is only .159" in diameter, which is not much LOL.

We just ran our new car and i started with 1" roll out, and it turned better then any car we have had, and i couldn't believe it really, i am old and stuck in the past LOL but with these new load numbers and droop loads its a whole new game i guess.

Which begs the next question, how do you tighten it up more, say when it slicks off big time ? zero stagger, reverse stagger, and taking out lead or trail?

[Kromulous]

Another thing CJ Rayburn talked about this in his recent DoD interview, on how in the old days they ran without a lot of rear steer and turned the car with the front end. His claim was the feature times are not any faster, which i am not sure about, but it seems like the track times on a racey track are feaster, but is that due to more HP with modern engines. Something to ponder i guess.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Another thing CJ Rayburn talked about this in his recent DoD interview, on how in the old days they ran without a lot of rear steer and turned the car with the front end. His claim was the feature times are not any faster, which i am not sure about, but it seems like the track times on a racey track are feaster, but is that due to more HP with modern engines. Something to ponder i guess.

Poor CJ is all wet. They are wayyyy faster in the feature. The cars are at least a half second faster at Eldora than 10 years ago even though they run on the wrong rubber by rules.

[Jking24]

Poor CJ is all wet. They are wayyyy faster in the feature. The cars are at least a half second faster at Eldora than 10 years ago even though they run on the wrong rubber by rules.Agreed with regards to cj theirs alot of comparisons he makes that aren't apples to apples. In regards to the stagger theirs more Than one way to skin a cat. You can put a much stagger as you want in within reason of course and i can still make your stuff dumptruck tight. I new a very successful racer years ago that swore you only adjust stagger for the size and shape of the race track. He says the shadow and banking of the corner isn't changing why does the stagger need to. You could argue this from several angles but bottom line is they won alot of races in their time running the same stagger weather it was hammer down or dryslick and this was at a track that can be either way depending on prep that week

[Kromulous]

I talked to a guy, famous racer, said that is all he ever wanted to change. Adjust stagger, and that is it !

Unless it was wholesale lost, according to him, he would adjust stagger to what he wanted tight or loser and go.

I guess its all in what your used too.

Myself i have come to find wheel spacers are very helpful, but i do tend to agree with the set stagger for a given track but do adjust stagger here and there LOL

[Kromulous]

As for CJ i thought i would just throw that out there, its a point of view. CJ i think tends to be nostalgic about the past, understandable from a guy that is in his 80's and race all his life just about.

The new max rear steer set ups, from what i see helps get the car into the corner a lot faster. Just a slight let up in "holding' the car straight and your set in, and back all over the fuel, if the car is right. Seems like the old cars you had to roll the car in more. Anyway, thats just my observations.

[fastford]

Another thing CJ Rayburn talked about this in his recent DoD interview, on how in the old days they ran without a lot of rear steer and turned the car with the front end. His claim was the feature times are not any faster, which i am not sure about, but it seems like the track times on a racey track are feaster, but is that due to more HP with modern engines. Something to ponder i guess.

and thats where cj fell behind , those old cars had no where near the dynamic rear steer the ones do today , i think rusty was trying to help him but cj was just to old and stuck in his ways to continue ,

[bcarrot28]

Last season myself and my teamate both tried low stagger setups all year (less than 1" most of the time). We fought tight cars that would not turn in properly all year. We run only on small 3/8 paperclip tracks, stop and go. The more stagger we added near the end of the year the better the cars were (1 3/4" was the most we ran). Is it possible that low stagger will not work on this type of track? Lots of bar changes according to the chassis builder to try to get it to turn as well to no avail.

[billetbirdcage]

We just ran our new car and i started with 1" roll out, and it turned better then any car we have had, and i couldn't believe it really, i am old and stuck in the past LOL but with these new load numbers and droop loads its a whole new game i guess.



Krom, I thought you was getting out and went mod racing? Not the case?

[billetbirdcage]

Last season myself and my teamate both tried low stagger setups all year (less than 1" most of the time). We fought tight cars that would not turn in properly all year. We run only on small 3/8 paperclip tracks, stop and go. The more stagger we added near the end of the year the better the cars were (1 3/4" was the most we ran). Is it possible that low stagger will not work on this type of track? Lots of bar changes according to the chassis builder to try to get it to turn as well to no avail.

It has a lot to do with driving style, IMO more then track style. Honestly a guy could make a really good argument that a paperclip/stop and go track would be the track that would like the least amount of stagger over other tracks.

I would guess you drive straighter then average or less not really crossed up, thus don't prefer small stagger ranges.

Never been a fan of the really low stagger's myself but doesn't mean it's right or wrong, do what works for you.

[Kromulous]

That is true Billet, but i still like to talk SLMs if you all dont mind. Plus i still help here and there on other cars.

Also from what i am seeing so far, with these new Mods the set ups are virtually the same. Car weighs more, but the loads and stuff are close. We are running a zero index LR deal, heavy cage, and axle, with 300 lbs droop load currently.

I wanted to hang on another year in the Supers, but not in the cards but i am still buying lotto tickets LOL !

[billetbirdcage]

That is true Billet, but i still like to talk SLMs if you all dont mind. Plus i still help here and there on other cars.

Also from what i am seeing so far, with these new Mods the set ups are virtually the same. Car weighs more, but the loads and stuff are close. We are running a zero index LR deal, heavy cage, and axle, with 300 lbs droop load currently.

I wanted to hang on another year in the Supers, but not in the cards but i am still buying lotto tickets LOL !

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/19/49/11/1949114b234269994e6e28259de62c9b--define-what-man-card.jpg

No LM, no man card


Sorry Joking but I had too

[ZERO25]

How are guys going about getting that little stagger? Run a 90 (or 28.5) on the RR?

In my area most are running 3 92's and 1 90!

[rosco]

What is roll out?

[ZERO25]

Agreed with regards to cj theirs alot of comparisons he makes that aren't apples to apples. In regards to the stagger theirs more Than one way to skin a cat. You can put a much stagger as you want in within reason of course and i can still make your stuff dumptruck tight. I new a very successful racer years ago that swore you only adjust stagger for the size and shape of the race track. He says the shadow and banking of the corner isn't changing why does the stagger need to. You could argue this from several angles but bottom line is they won alot of races in their time running the same stagger weather it was hammer down or dryslick and this was at a track that can be either way depending on prep that week

CP Furney wrote a book on Hoosier tires many years ago. He stated you had to adjust stagger due to the track conditions causing more or less squish in the right side tires!

He was ahead of the times in his book. He had stagger tables based on turn radius's and rear track width.

fwiw......he was an engineer in the aluminum industry and had many patents working for Alcoa!

[Kromulous]

LOL @ Billet, its going to be different.

Roll out, as i call it, measuring around the tire with a tape. Usually a SLM tire is anywhere from 95 to 89 ish maybe.

A friend of mine bought one of them gauges (across the tire) nice bearing one that converts it to circumference, its kinda nice, but i just use a tape, kinda feel lost if i don't have one in my pocket at the track.

Most people, 99% prob use roll out, I just wanted to make sure that is how they measure it too.

[manwplan]

get a set of Hammond setup plates and put the car at posture and start measuring. I've measured quite a few different cars and you'll be surprised what you can learn.

[CCHIEF]

Imagine how detailed you get on a pull down rig.

[fastford]

Imagine how detailed you get on a pull down rig.

no doubt , i use an old frame machine from my old body shop to rig up a home made rig , its an old in the floor unit , some pulley,s , cable and come-a-longs and jacks work pretty well......