Verifying brake bias

[dfhotlm33c]

Wilson’s pedal assembly. Inside (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit style. Right master cylinder rear. Left MC fronts. Balance bar comes out the right side and routed to lever on right side of steering wheel. Turning lever to right would be rear bias, yes? Sorry for basic question

[TheJet-09]

In trying to picture it in my mind, I'm going to say no. The absolute answer is, as the center of the brake pedal's balance bar moves closer to a particular master cylinder's pushrod, that master will have more force applied than the other.

With a right hand thread balance bar, you're moving it closer to the left master when turning the adjuster clockwise (to the right).

[billetbirdcage]

https://i.imgur.com/BRszaQv.png

[dfhotlm33c]

Perfect. Thank you. That answers it.

[Jim11h]

Yes crank clockwise and to add rear brake

[TheJet-09]

^^^ I'd double check that. Assuming everything is right hand threads, turning clockwise moves the center of the balance bar to the left (away from his rear master).

[dfhotlm33c]

It is right hand thread. Turning clockwise moves the right end of the bar towards the master cylinders, thus away from the rear brake. So, clockwise is front and counter is rear...thanks again

[TheJet-09]

I was more curious why you asked. Are you not noticing a difference when adjusting the bias, or something else?

I think the brakes are an overlooked aspect of the cars overall handling. I'm always amazed at how many guys I talk to that run 3-wheel brakes the entire night, yet I don't even chance it when the track is heavy.

[billetbirdcage]

I was more curious why you asked. Are you not noticing a difference when adjusting the bias, or something else?

I think the brakes are an overlooked aspect of the cars overall handling. I'm always amazed at how many guys I talk to that run 3-wheel brakes the entire night, yet I don't even chance it when the track is heavy.

Pretty much every top driver I've ever ran across runs the brakes all to the rear and runs 3 wheel brakes all the time

[bullittwrench]

Billet, is that mainly due to everyone being too tight and having 900hp to turn it?

[dfhotlm33c]

Well I was going to post this in a separate topic, but I guess since everyone asked:
I kept turning bias to the front during heat but car kept getting looser in, as in basically spin out loose. (Car was really good through about lap four and then starting getting crazy loose) So, I thought I was backwards. I wasn't. It was correct. I couldn't even stay out for the feature because I couldn't even get in without spinning out.

Funny you mention three wheel brakes. My Dad and I disagreed on that one. I explained everyone uses them, especially when track is heavy. He claimed it was only designed for very short, tight turn tracks. I disagreed.

Anyways, Going over car today and deciding what changes to make, I discovered pinion mount of j-bar had loosened enough to slide all the way down the bracket to the very bottom, as in over 2" below pinion. It must have been progressively dropping lower throughout the heat. Now, my confusion is that I always understood that more rake, and a lowering of the roll center would tighten the car, not loosen it. Is that incorrect? The pinion mount is "climbing" style I guess, so the rear end did not move laterally as far as I could tell. Ideas?

[billetbirdcage]

Well I was going to post this in a separate topic, but I guess since everyone asked:
I kept turning bias to the front during heat but car kept getting looser in, as in basically spin out loose. (Car was really good through about lap four and then starting getting crazy loose) So, I thought I was backwards. I wasn't. It was correct. I couldn't even stay out for the feature because I couldn't even get in without spinning out.

Funny you mention three wheel brakes. My Dad and I disagreed on that one. I explained everyone uses them, especially when track is heavy. He claimed it was only designed for very short, tight turn tracks. I disagreed.

Anyways, Going over car today and deciding what changes to make, I discovered pinion mount of j-bar had loosened enough to slide all the way down the bracket to the very bottom, as in over 2" below pinion. It must have been progressively dropping lower throughout the heat. Now, my confusion is that I always understood that more rake, and a lowering of the roll center would tighten the car, not loosen it. Is that incorrect? The pinion mount is "climbing" style I guess, so the rear end did not move laterally as far as I could tell. Ideas?

Is this a new car to you or one you don't have much time in and is always loose on the brakes or a new problem that showed up recently?

Reason I ask is I put a new car together, that was loose as hell and couldn't figure out why (different car then I was used too) as it turned out one of the master cylinders was a 3/4" in a 1" box (I got 2 1" and one 3/4" for the clutch) so I had a 3/4" on the rear and didn't know it. When I was all the way to the front it still had more rear brake. What lead me to find it was I started having to drive with almost no brakes and the car was better so I looked at the brakes and found it.

[billetbirdcage]

Billet, is that mainly due to everyone being too tight and having 900hp to turn it?

I can't say I really have a good answer for you. Even back before the LR behind most of the really top guys were like that. The cars are driven so different now a days, that your not really doing the more asphalt racing type driving with slowing/coasting to the physical middle of the corner and picking up the gas. Today you pretty much need to be on the gas as soon as you turn in the corner (not always but as an average statement for a lot of tracks and set ups).

It's too easy to slide the RF tire, removing that allows all the traction to be used for turning and not losing some from some traction of the tire going to braking. Some may not fully like the RF off and may use a split caliper up there or have a proportioning valve to cut the pressure way down, but I still say it's very rare that a top driver turns the RF on and if it happens it's cause they missed the set up and is a last ditch effort to help the car once on the track.

[TheJet-09]

That's some good info. I'll give it a try when I get back to one of the tracks I've already been to this year (still too chicken to try it at a place my first time there).

I believe I've shared this before, but I went to a chassis class at MasterSbilt a while back, and Ray Cook was there. He said he starts the night out 4-turns off of full rear, with the RF shut off. Once he gets to even front to rear, he turns the RF back on and goes back to 4-turns off full rear. Seems like a lot of adjusting, but I'd also concede he's a better driver than me.

And thanks to the O.P. for sharing the handling issue. Hopefully you get it sorted out.