Super late model motors

[jpb]

How long do you think it will be before the LS platform will be the motor of choice for the SLM's?Several guys have tried them this year. Baldwin seems to be the go to, making the most power as of now.

[HoosierDirtFan]

Ask Mullins their the ones that developed it and did all the R&D. I think it will depend on how reliable the motor is and how good it becomes down the road. Mullins advertises their LS Motor for around $27K. The more drivers and teams the go to using the LS motor the more were going to know about it and what it offers.

[NeedforLMspeed]

I thought Mullins was the ones working on it

[NeedforLMspeed]

Wasn't Bobby using one also from Mullins.

[zyoung25]

Weiss had one as well. There are more out there than what we know about. Pretty much all of the fast UMP mod guys run them from what I've seen.

[dirtcrazy4u]

At 27K it's no wonder the mod guys run them. As for the slm guys, on tour you need dependability and how many laps the motor gives you before it starts to lay down. If they get those numbers closer to the ford you're going to see more guys running them.

[Jking24]

Seems to be alot of misinformation in this thread. Mullins is not the one who started or did all the r and d on these engines. They have been around for quite some time bloomquist ran one over ten years ago. Their are many guys running them but most don't seem to be able to compete consistently on the national level with them. Baldwin has been pushing them for quite some time maybe the longest and he advertises huge horsepower numbers but their on track performance seems to lack. He has also had some growing pains with reliability and fixing these has resulted in his package climbing in price another 10k. Jessie Stovall has run one from i think a guy named bailey for the better part of two years. Mullins is actually one of the last ones to the party but i think he knows what needs to happen to make the engines win races not just be a dyno queen. He also has the ability to do much more in house than Baldwin and others, he is the only builder i know of starting with a fresh casting and not purchasing stuff from outside vendors. His package thus far seems to run the best out of any of them and reliability seems to be what has come to be expected from his name. Babb won Fairbury with one schlenk has won a bunch of stuff with one. Peirce won at Florence with one. Overton ran one in the rum runner ride for a bit and i beleive they still have one. They are gaining steem and have alot of potential but it's the price that even makes it a possibility and at least one of those guys listed is already pricing himself out of the game. Mullins current package is advertised as a quality regional/ weekly package. I'm intrested to see what his "big" package will produce.

[fastford]

when EFI is allowed in DLM racing , they will become way more relevent , i build several of these a year , mostly for drag racer,s , a 419 with rectangular intake ports will make 750 hp on pump gas , texas speed has a stock ls block withstanding right at 2000hp on twin turbos , so the foundation is plenty strong strait from GM , plus stroker kits are very reasonable , i personally dont like the idea of efi in late model racing , im a bit old school , but to make the kind of power these engines are capable of and control it , efi is about mandatory , especially on pump gas , just my 2 cents....

[Jking24]

when EFI is allowed in DLM racing , they will become way more relevent , i build several of these a year , mostly for drag racer,s , a 419 with rectangular intake ports will make 750 hp on pump gas , texas speed has a stock ls block withstanding right at 2000hp on twin turbos , so the foundation is plenty strong strait from GM , plus stroker kits are very reasonable , i personally dont like the idea of efi in late model racing , im a bit old school , but to make the kind of power these engines are capable of and control it , efi is about mandatory , especially on pump gas , just my 2 cents....Not the case carburetors routinely make more horsepower than fuel injection in head to head competition even on pump gas. The horse power numbers they make are irrelevant what matters in latemodels is drivability and a broad smooth power range. If the big number was all that matterd Baldwin ls engines would already be on the pole of every major event nationwide

[Josh Bayko]

They won’t get popular until the top guys on the national tours switch to them. They won’t get the top guys on the national tours to switch to them unless they can get the drivability to match the Ford motors.

[bullittwrench]

Concerning rebuild/freshen intervals, is 1000 green flag laps still a good rule of thumb?

[Jking24]

Concerning rebuild/freshen intervals, is 1000 green flag laps still a good rule of thumb?Yes generally between 1000-1200 some guys go 1500

[bullittwrench]

Thanks, Is that for steel and aluminum both?

[Rajflyboy]

By LS ...I’m assuming you mean these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_LS-based_small-block_engine

[Jking24]

Thanks, Is that for steel and aluminum both?I was speaking to aluminum super latemodel engines. Generaly the less horsepower you make the more laps you get many steel block engine builders say 1500-1800 laps some crate guys go 2500+. It all comes down to power and what parts were used their are ways to free up 30+hp but in doing so your down in the 600-800 lap range. Everything is a give and take

[Jking24]

Flyboy yes basically

[billetbirdcage]

Concerning rebuild/freshen intervals, is 1000 green flag laps still a good rule of thumb?

It really depends on what stroke/CID motor you have and what brand too be completely honest. With the Ford we run 2000 laps, we could never go that far with a Chevy and didn't turn as many RPM's and was 30 to 40 HP short of the ford. 1200ish is about as far as we would push the Chevy.

I'm talking full on super engines: 430+ CiD, 875 to 925HP, 8600/9400 RPM stuff

[Car Biz]

It really depends on what stroke/CID motor you have and what brand too be completely honest. With the Ford we run 2000 laps, we could never go that far with a Chevy and didn't turn as many RPM's and was 30 to 40 HP short of the ford. 1200ish is about as far as we would push the Chevy.

I'm talking full on super engines: 430+ CiD, 875 to 925HP, 8600/9400 RPM stuff

WOW 2000 laps! Is that common place now? Malcuit told us 1000 on our 415 Ford and 1200 we were on "borrowed time" this was in 1998 though

[fastford]

Not the case carburetors routinely make more horsepower than fuel injection in head to head competition even on pump gas. The horse power numbers they make are irrelevant what matters in latemodels is drivability and a broad smooth power range. If the big number was all that matterd Baldwin ls engines would already be on the pole of every major event nationwide

im not saying carbs want work , i am a carb man my self , but on pump gas , there is no way to control high compression near as well as with efi and timing control { ie: knock sensors } , and for smooth power curve , its efi hands down,,,,jmo

[dirtcrazy4u]

Yea strictly pump gas EFI would be the way to go. The touring guys are not running pump gas. Many swap out carbs in any given night just because of track conditions and can fine tune the carb. You don't have that flexibility with EFI . At least not until they let you get out the laptop and that's a whole new ballgame.

[westlingracing]

We have ran LS since 2014. Started using the ct525 in ump. Even made half the summer national shows that year with them.. in 2016 we did modify them with Baldwin. We can make close to 700 with 93 octane pump gas and still us a hydraulic cam. We got around 3000 laps before we had a stock valve fail. Bearings, rings still looked new. Can't do that with a sbc!

[billetbirdcage]

WOW 2000 laps! Is that common place now? Malcuit told us 1000 on our 415 Ford and 1200 we were on "borrowed time" this was in 1998 though

Again it depends on what you have. The fords a few of my guys use are all a Spintron tested combo so valve train problems are basically non existent even at 9500 RPM, the biggest concern is really pulling a rod apart due to the massive piston speed at those RPM's. I would not recommend that many laps on a typical LM engine unless it was a very researched out combo and had spintron testing done.

After 1200 laps the engine was down 8 HP so we now run closer to 2000 laps and had no issues.

[grt74]

Again it depends on what you have. The fords a few of my guys use are all a Spintron tested combo so valve train problems are basically non existent even at 9500 RPM, the biggest concern is really pulling a rod apart due to the massive piston speed at those RPM's. I would not recommend that many laps on a typical LM engine unless it was a very researched out combo and had spintron testing done.

After 1200 laps the engine was down 8 HP so we now run closer to 2000 laps and had no issues.

ry 45 ???? just curious

[Rajflyboy]

The LS is going big time 👍https://m.facebook.com/ScottBloomquistRacing/photos/a.613090402498133/1059793817827787/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-R

[billetbirdcage]

ry 45 ???? just curious

Yes, an RY45

[Jking24]

The LS is going big time https://m.facebook.com/ScottBloomquistRacing/photos/a.613090402498133/1059793817827787/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=EH-RI guess you didn't watch the race

[Rajflyboy]

Nope. But you have to try something in order to make it better and find ways to use it as need be

[jpb]

I guess you didn't watch the race Not sure if it's accurate info or not but heard there was a hole in the radiator. Not a engine issue.

[Jking24]

Not sure if it's accurate info or not but heard there was a hole in the radiator. Not a engine issue.Yeah i heard that and I'm not suggesting that he had engine trouble per say. But it looked like every other Baldwin engine I've seen they claim big dyno numbers but Scott couldn't get away from madden. It did not look like the motor ran good enough to contend. I have been paying very close attention to these engines for quite some time. And specifically the Baldwins. Some local guys in my area even have or had them and they just don't ever seem to back it up on the track

[donavon]

Bloomer ran the 2nd quickest lap in the race the same lap Madden ran the fastest lap...Not too shabby

[over4T]

We'd love to build an LS engine for our class, Pro/Super Stock, which is a step or so below the DLMs that really don't exist on the left coast the last several years. Unfortunately, we're limited to all iron engines and I don't know of anyone making an iron head for them.

The stock front clips and engine rules against the LS technology kill us and leave us running 40-50 year old stuff on both counts. On the plus side the class is quite a bit more economical to run and car counts are pretty good and purses have been creeping up to respectable. Mods are moving to aftermarket clips as the junkyard sources dry up.

When I started in the old hardtops/coupes the cars were built from stuff only 10-15 years out of production. The cardboard and plastic unibody stuff currently on the road doesn't make for a promising future for the basic Saturday night racer. I'm glad I unlikely will be around when electric Priuses are the norm at the local tracks.

[Jim11h]

Ls had 1 or 2 years of steel head, believe 99/00. The numbers don't appear to be bad starting point. I've been kicking idea around of building one for open cu.in. 2 barrel class just to be different

[riddle28]

you dont see them winning at the big places for the big shows eldora, knoxville etc. I mean honestly theyre ford windsor engines with slightly different intake ports and main webbing. Same valve angle, same bore spacing, the junk yard motors are great for the streets but i dont get why folks think theyre the savior of racing

[NeedforLMspeed]

you dont see them winning at the big places for the big shows eldora, knoxville etc

Well... Obviously not yet...

[fastford]

you dont see them winning at the big places for the big shows eldora, knoxville etc. I mean honestly theyre ford windsor engines with slightly different intake ports and main webbing. Same valve angle, same bore spacing, the junk yard motors are great for the streets but i dont get why folks think theyre the savior of racing

ha , very few people know this , i said the exact same thing the first time i ever tore one down , and the block on the ls and the mod ford is a spin of of 1960,s technology , meaning the cross bolt main 427 , they just added 2 more inner main bolts.....

[Jim11h]

So just because it hasn't won at places that have 3-5 lm races a season their junk. 2 ls motors at world against 80 normal motors, is same as going to PA track with 2 non rockets in the feature. Odds stacked against. It's gonna take a little time and experimenting to see what works especially in cam department. I'm all about open motors getting cheaper cause I'm not into crate motor thing like many herds of sheep

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

you dont see them winning at the big places for the big shows eldora, knoxville etc. I mean honestly theyre ford windsor engines with slightly different intake ports and main webbing. Same valve angle, same bore spacing, the junk yard motors are great for the streets but i dont get why folks think theyre the savior of racing

They don't have to win at Eldora to keep guys racing. There are only 10 cars that can win there. The engines make horsepower cheaply. That's what most racers need.

[fastford]

So just because it hasn't won at places that have 3-5 lm races a season their junk. 2 ls motors at world against 80 normal motors, is same as going to PA track with 2 non rockets in the feature. Odds stacked against. It's gonna take a little time and experimenting to see what works especially in cam department. I'm all about open motors getting cheaper cause I'm not into crate motor thing like many herds of sheep

i have said all along that they are the future of the GM small block engines in circle track and drag racing , you can pick up an aluminum ls block for a fraction or a lot less than a dart conventional block and the ls is far superior IMO , i am a dealer for texas speed and they have some great components for these engines that are very reasonable priced.....

[heinen81]

Yeah i heard that and I'm not suggesting that he had engine trouble per say. But it looked like every other Baldwin engine I've seen they claim big dyno numbers but Scott couldn't get away from madden. It did not look like the motor ran good enough to contend. I have been paying very close attention to these engines for quite some time. And specifically the Baldwins. Some local guys in my area even have or had them and they just don't ever seem to back it up on the track

^^ This guy is a moron. Lap times were right there.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

^^ This guy is a moron. Lap times were right there.

Bloomquist took off like a rocket at the start. His best lap was .06 slower than Madden's best lap. Ultimate hp doesn't win many DLM races either. I agree. The engine was fine.

Did the Rettig engine make over 1000 legit hp? No, I don't buy it. But guess what, it doesn't need to.

[zyoung25]

You do not need a big hog at Eldora anymore. We used to run our standard bore 430 when we would race there. Zack Dohm will argue that as well. Knoxville on the other hand, is about as wide open as anywhere on the planet.

I can see one winning at Eldora.