Why do some fans get so upset over the use of provisionals?

[Returning to Dirt]

https://insidedirtracing.com/why-do-fans-get-so-upset-over-the-use-of-provisionals/

This is a recorded "podcast" which lasts for just over 8 minutes.

I have never really understood why some people get to so upset over the use of provisionals so that's what I talk about here.

[LeafMaster41]

Because Provisionals are little like, "Crony Capitalism". It usually rewards big names at the exclusion and/or detriment of lesser known drivers. Now if those spots are determined by a draw or fan vote then it may be more palatable.

[dirtSLMracing]

Because Provisionals are little like, "Crony Capitalism". It usually rewards big names at the exclusion and/or detriment of lesser known drivers. Now if those spots are determined by a draw or fan vote then it may be more palatable.

How about it rewards drivers that follow a series or maybe a fast qualifier that didn't make it in through heats? It's pretty clear who is in line for a provisonal based off points and has nothing to do with being a "big name". But why let facts get in the way of a good Monday morning rant.

[Highside Hustler25]

I think any fan will agree that provisionals are necessary. Just need a limit or cap on handing them out.

[Just The Tip]

I dont like them because they reward drivers by putting them in the show when they didn't earn it. It is the ultimate participation trophy. You weren't good enough to make the race, but you follow our tour so we are going to let you in anyway. Who cares if you were fast qualifier, you should've transfered through your heat or B-main. Plus, it incentives drivers to give less than 100% in a B-main if they know that they are taking a provisional.

With all that said, I get why series have and use them. As a fan I've come to accept them as a part of our sport. Although I don't agree with them, I get it.

[zyoung25]

I dont mind them honestly. Im just not a fan of when a guy already locked in with a provisional, literally knocks a guy out of a transfer spot.

Some of us remember the KRob/Richards tangle a couple years ago. Josh shouldve probably shouldve had the Casey Roberts treatment over that one.

[Jking24]

Definitely has nothing to do with "big" names most of the time. It's more about supporting the series. We have made several outlaw shows from being the "high" points guy that didn't make the show and we don't even remotely follow the series but if their here were gonna run with them because that's the only way you get better. Now emergency provisionals that's a whole other rant and i do think the series need to make some adjustments their

[chathamracefan]

Provisionals aren't a big deal at normal series races, but at some of the crown jewels, it kinda dampens things a bit IMO. To me a true crown jewel is a no provisional type of deal. Or like Eldora does it, the provisionals that are handed out are based solely on performance at that event (fast time, high point man, etc). Certainly doesn't keep me from watching, but part of the thrill of going to Eldora (or Knoxville for the sprint car nationals) is the real possibility that several big name guys will pack it in before the A main starts.

[84wedge]

Provisionals are the welfare cheque of racing.

[Josh Bayko]

Provisionals really aren’t that big a deal.

[BTExpress]

I do not mind a few Provisionals especially for a touring series. However, what drives me nuts is how the WOOLMS series does it. I guess I do not understand their rules. When I saw 11 Provisionals at Volusia it drove me nuts. Drivers declaring they are running the whole season only to get into the starting lineup in Florida. The WoO sprint cars do it right. I believe each Platinum driver gets two in the first half of the season and two in the second half. Most of the top drivers never use one, let alone their allotted four. But is a reward in case they need it if they have an off night,

[cjsracing]

I dont like them because they reward drivers by putting them in the show when they didn't earn it. It is the ultimate participation trophy. You weren't good enough to make the race, but you follow our tour so we are going to let you in anyway. Who cares if you were fast qualifier, you should've transfered through your heat or B-main. Plus, it incentives drivers to give less than 100% in a B-main if they know that they are taking a provisional.

With all that said, I get why series have and use them. As a fan I've come to accept them as a part of our sport. Although I don't agree with them, I get it.

Didn't earn it? They earned it by being high enough in points and following the series, so don't give me the "they didn't earn it" BS.

[TS FAN]

https://insidedirtracing.com/why-do-fans-get-so-upset-over-the-use-of-provisionals/

This is a recorded "podcast" which lasts for just over 8 minutes.

I have never really understood why some people get to so upset over the use of provisionals so that's what I talk about here.

I totally agree with you on this. However there is a mind set on here on both sides, and it makes the whole thing a no win discussion. Sort of like Politics. LOL

[Winston_Wolfe]

This is one where I am sure we'll have to agree to disagree, but I fall in the camp of those who do not like Provisionals. I think every show should stand on its own and if you didn't make it into the feature that night, it's not your night. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on how many race winners come from Provisional entries over the course of a season? I suspect WoO or Lucas Provisionals either pull off early or are typically not competitive anyway, so having them in the feature doesn't add value for fans.

[Highside Hustler25]

Like em or not, touring provisionals aren't going away any time soon.

[Just The Tip]

Didn't earn it? They earned it by being high enough in points and following the series, so don't give me the "they didn't earn it" BS.

That's what tow money is for. Race your way in or load it up.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Like em or not, touring provisionals aren't going away any time soon.

They don't fail tech and they get a pass into the feature. It's a good gig.

[dirtcrazy4u]

There in there for the guys that follow the tour. Do they deserve it ? I say yes they do. A guy commits to following a tour should get the respect from the series. My take is, if the series gives out or has multiple series regulars that did not make the A main. Then there should be as many locals that get a provisional

[EDERDS]

I can remember when the Show-Me 100 and the Topless 100 wasn’t sanctioned series races. You had to race your way in and no provisionals. Can remember sitting at West Plains and seeing Billy Moyer’s rig leaving before the feature race. Both of those races went downhill when they became sanctioned races

[slmcrewchief99]

Here is my take on this subject. Each of you go out there and fund a team. Regional, National, Summer Nats, makes no difference. Follow the entire schedule from start to finish. Then come back and tell us your opinion on provisionals.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Here is my take on this subject. Each of you go out there and fund a team. Regional, National, Summer Nats, makes no difference. Follow the entire schedule from start to finish. Then come back and tell us your opinion on provisionals.

That's the problem with series racing. They only care what the drivers think. They have the only voice. It makes the product not fan friendly. We get drawn out marathons with lots of down time for pit stops, sheet metal pulls, etc. We get train races.

It makes it harder if you get no provisional, I get that. Most times, it also just puts you out there wearing your stuff out for start money.

[TS FAN]

Here is my take on this subject. Each of you go out there and fund a team. Regional, National, Summer Nats, makes no difference. Follow the entire schedule from start to finish. Then come back and tell us your opinion on provisionals.

That is it in a nutshell!!!!!

[BloomerWon]

You all's upset about people being upset... 😁

[Highside Hustler25]

You all's upset about people being upset... 

Thanks for your input Mr. Obvious. We never made the conection.

[BloomerWon]

Thanks for your input Mr. Obvious. We never made the conection.

Well dang! Sarcasm much? 👅

[WisWildManFan]

That's the problem with series racing. They only care what the drivers think. They have the only voice. It makes the product not fan friendly. We get drawn out marathons with lots of down time for pit stops, sheet metal pulls, etc. We get train races.It makes it harder if you get no provisional, I get that. Most times, it also just puts you out there wearing your stuff out for start money.Yep along with qualifying and putting fastest guy on the point. Either pay qualifying points and have and invert or go to a pill draw. The fastest car starting on the pole of a race is never good for the fans.

[CCHIEF]

As long as you know them (provisions) before any car hits the track, it’s fair play.Want redraw/invert etc, enter a weekly show. Series followers should get catered to.Fans need to conceit to whom is putting the Big money in to have a show!A track provisional is usually on the track promoters dime, and a welcomed addition to a touring series show.

[dirtSLMracing]

Without provisionals car counts would drop in touring series and people complaining now about provisionals would be complaining about the drop in car counts.

[NeedforLM$peed]

2 is ok. Maybe 3 depending on the event. 5+ isn't ok. A guy using one because of mechanical issue is ok. A guy using one almost every event isn't ok.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

As long as you know them (provisions) before any car hits the track, it’s fair play.Want redraw/invert etc, enter a weekly show. Series followers should get catered to.Fans need to conceit to whom is putting the Big money in to have a show!A track provisional is usually on the track promoters dime, and a welcomed addition to a touring series show.

The fans are the ones that make the big money possible. Forest Lucas isn't showing up with a checkbook.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Without provisionals car counts would drop in touring series and people complaining now about provisionals would be complaining about the drop in car counts.

I don't really see that as a problem. We are on our way to 30 super LM in the whole country already.

[84wedge]

I don't really see that as a problem. We are on our way to 30 super LM in the whole country already.I laughed at this.

[84wedge]

"Crony Capitalism" and "Participation Trophies" have been my favourite description so far. Some cars are just losers and if they want a second chance, well there's another race next week.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I laughed at this.

It wasn't a joke. Crates have replaced them all in many parts of the US already.

[CCHIEF]

The fans are the ones that make the big money possible. Forest Lucas isn't showing up with a checkbook. "Fans need to conceit to whom is putting the Big money in to HAVE a show" No cars, no show.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

"Fans need to conceit to whom is putting the Big money in to HAVE a show" No cars, no show.

No fans, no money, no show. Entertainers take what they can get. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it isn't squat. Depends on demand.

[Buford.Justice]

You all's upset about people being upset... 

I'm upset about people being upset about people being upset!!!! hehe

[NeedforLM$peed]

The fans are the ones that make the big money possible. Forest Lucas isn't showing up with a checkbook.

With the exception of last year's tour restart at East Bay.

[84wedge]

Here is my take on this subject. Each of you go out there and fund a team. Regional, National, Summer Nats, makes no difference. Follow the entire schedule from start to finish. Then come back and tell us your opinion on provisionals.And if your team had to qualify out of 300 cars to get into the feature event, how would you feel about provisionals being handed to the tour directors buddy?

[ZERO25]

Here is my take on this subject. Each of you go out there and fund a team. Regional, National, Summer Nats, makes no difference. Follow the entire schedule from start to finish. Then come back and tell us your opinion on provisionals.

BINGO!^^^^^

The only complaint I have is the same guys, nearly every race, getting an Emergency Provisional. They should limit those!

[ZERO25]

The fans are the ones that make the big money possible. Forest Lucas isn't showing up with a checkbook.

Ummmmmm, yes he is. He's subsidized many races in the past year!Fact!

[84wedge]

Ummmmmm, yes he is. He's subsidized many races in the past year!Fact!And he's the only reason EPJ gets in every single feature.

[ZERO25]

And he's the only reason EPJ gets in every single feature.

You really think Forrest made a rule just for his sponsored driver? If he did, he's a terrible businessman(which we know he aint)!

[84wedge]

If they limited the amount of provisionals that could be used, the car with LUCAS plastered on the front would be the first to use them up. The car is a loser and it carries the flagship sponsor for the tour. That's not business, that's nepotism.

[Raceready]

That's what tow money is for. Race your way in or load it up.LOL ! That makes sense ? Give a local that drove 10 miles to the track and only brought his immediate family in the stands a prov but not a series regular who just drove 800 miles from the last race and had 200 of his loyal fans follow him here that spent a lot of money in local hotels and businesses the boot ? BTW, The touring driver might have to drive 400 miles overnight to get to the next race. Why would anyone follow any series if there wasn't even any incentive to pay for at least some of his fuel? You would only have 4 drivers that would able to last the whole year if the hadn't hope at all to get in the feature event.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Well I have to agree. The pc of crap EPJ is wheeling around the track has to have a spot reserved. If you hire EPJ you can have LUCAS across the front and side of your car also. It's a shame because EPJ is one of the good guys out there. Those cars are good for crate racers and that's about it. You can't have a reservation every night and yes it does contradict what I said in a earlier post. I guess because I'd like to see him racing for a win again. Maybe that would make them change something on the car to get some decent lap times in so he isn't in the back of every heat race.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Ummmmmm, yes he is. He's subsidized many races in the past year!Fact!

He did a few Covid shows. That is not the norm. You know it. No one can conduct business like that week after week.

[Josh Bayko]

He did a few Covid shows. That is not the norm. You know it. No one can conduct business like that week after week.

There was that one guy that tried to finance all of his own shows. It didn’t last long.

[CrankedUp90]

Only 8 provisionals tonight in Tennessee.. LMAO!!!! Starting 32 cars..

[TerryM]

Only 8 provisionals tonight in Tennessee.. LMAO!!!! Starting 32 cars..
They had to get that one particular local driver in the show somehow.

[ZERO25]

He did a few Covid shows. That is not the norm. You know it. No one can conduct business like that week after week.

Ummmmm, thats a big NO!

He's done wayyyyy more than that!

[dirtcrazy4u]

8 last night. On a track that was used up after hot laps. This falls on track prep crew that's for sure, but still 8 provisionals, I think woo was embarrassed by the lack of prep also. Then of course you have to have 604 and 602 late models to s*ck every last drop of water from the surface. That's called money grab from the people running the joint.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Ummmmm, thats a big NO!

He's done wayyyyy more than that!

He sure as heck isn't showing up, renting a track, and putting on a show week after week. If he did, he wouldn't owe fans a thing. He would be above criticism. But that's not it at all.

[ZERO25]

He sure as heck isn't showing up, renting a track, and putting on a show week after week. If he did, he wouldn't owe fans a thing. He would be above criticism. But that's not it at all.

Almost!!!!

[84wedge]

Almost!!!!Ummmmmmmm, not really at all

[huskerdirt]

That's what tow money is for. Race your way in or load it up.


Tell that to the guy who drove 6 hours and then paid $300 bucks for the team to get in. Busted their asses all night only to get taken out by a guy who shouldn’t even been on the track.

“Hey sorry about your bad luck and dropping 6 spots in points, unfortunately you are the only full time guy not to make the show. Here’s a $100 and hopefully you can dig out that hole.”

Don’t insult people that actually race with that tow money bullish!t. You have $40 invested on that night. Teams have 1000s invested to compete significantly less. To be honest, your opinion on provisional means Jack sh!t to most racers.