Brownstown Proves There is a Problem.......

[hardracer32]

....with droop/hike, whatever you want to call it. Just one more reason why they need to get these cars back down on the ground and reign in bodies to prevent so much roll and keep the COG lower.
Doing that would have a lot of positive affects on the cars and wouldn't cost hardly anything to implement or enforce.

1. It would make the cars safer to race all the way around.
A. It would help prevent rollovers from cars getting under each other with their noses.
B. It would reduce the likelihood of a rollover from too much grip or from hitting a hole at high
speed. (Just like what was happening at Brownstown)
2. It would take away downforce which would accomplish several things.
A. It would make the cars more raceable.
B. It would take away traction from downforce which would in-turn limit the benefits of having
$50k, 900hp engines, and would allow some smaller budget teams to be more competitive.
C. These effects combined would cut down on the force, wear and tear on parts and make per
lap costs drop.

This isn't speculation, it's fact. And the reason I know this would work is that it's exactly what we had in the early to late 90's and early 2000's when you still saw SPEC engines being used and being competitive and when you still had healthy weekly car counts at tracks all across the country. Now, I can only think of one track within several hours of me that even runs Supers on a weekly basis. And somebody tell me why exactly we shouldn't be pushing for this? What are we helping or accomplishing in DLM racing today by having these cars so jacked up and outta shape? Getting the bodies back to at least somewhat straight would not make them look bad, in fact I think it would help the appearance of the cars. Getting the right front back under the fender wouldn't hurt a thing. Lowering the right front of the nose wouldn't hurt one thing. So why, why, why do they keep letting this go. At what point does anybody finally wise up and realize that this is not a sustainable path for late model racing?

[Rajflyboy]

Or make all the tracks like East Bay 😜

[Buford.Justice]

That seems to be their answer. But I totally agree with hardracer32..

[TS FAN]

I also agree with thread starter.

[LM1]

Agreed 10000%

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Monoleaf rear suspension

[King1]

Put em on twin tube carrera’s and one spring per corner and no bumps allowed, don’t allow things like regressive blow off valves and all the other trickery in shocks.

DLM racing is in the same position nascar was in back in the mid 2000’s with the twisted sister cars and turning 10,000 RPM and changing motors after practice and qual.

Mandate some of the trickery from the chassis companies and problem solved. Unless you want more innovation, which is what gets you exactly what you have now. But more rules makes more innovation. It’s a 2 edged sword.

[LM1]

The Mullins engine is a step in the right direction, but the cars need to be toned down. While I get they are super late models, what good is it if there are only 50 people in the entire country that can spend what it takes to win? Its also wearing out tracks quicker because there is just too much traction.

[427c.i.]

I'm all for controlling costs and getting away from these goofy looking boomerang bodies but maybe not racing on a track after a week of wet weather might have helped too. Even if the problem of cars flipping is removed from the equation, a track that rough was still going to tear up a lot of stuff.
Florence the week prior was the same deal.
Maybe they're trying to start a month too early.

[dirty-white-boy]

....with droop/hike, whatever you want to call it. Just one more reason why they need to get these cars back down on the ground and reign in bodies to prevent so much roll and keep the COG lower.
Doing that would have a lot of positive affects on the cars and wouldn't cost hardly anything to implement or enforce.

1. It would make the cars safer to race all the way around.
A. It would help prevent rollovers from cars getting under each other with their noses.
B. It would reduce the likelihood of a rollover from too much grip or from hitting a hole at high
speed. (Just like what was happening at Brownstown)
2. It would take away downforce which would accomplish several things.
A. It would make the cars more raceable.
B. It would take away traction from downforce which would in-turn limit the benefits of having
$50k, 900hp engines, and would allow some smaller budget teams to be more competitive.
C. These effects combined would cut down on the force, wear and tear on parts and make per
lap costs drop.

This isn't speculation, it's fact. And the reason I know this would work is that it's exactly what we had in the early to late 90's and early 2000's when you still saw SPEC engines being used and being competitive and when you still had healthy weekly car counts at tracks all across the country. Now, I can only think of one track within several hours of me that even runs Supers on a weekly basis. And somebody tell me why exactly we shouldn't be pushing for this? What are we helping or accomplishing in DLM racing today by having these cars so jacked up and outta shape? Getting the bodies back to at least somewhat straight would not make them look bad, in fact I think it would help the appearance of the cars. Getting the right front back under the fender wouldn't hurt a thing. Lowering the right front of the nose wouldn't hurt one thing. So why, why, why do they keep letting this go. At what point does anybody finally wise up and realize that this is not a sustainable path for late model racing?

Good luck! The powers to be in places like Shinnston WV, Coopersvill MI have way too much say to have this all make sense. Not to mention all the rule book enforcers that have slowly over time allowed these cars to get to what we see today. Remember this all most likely started with one racer showing up with their RF nose a few inches higher and they allowed it then they all did it then another guy showed up another inch higher ect. Nobody ever gets put back the hauler...EVER!

[Kromulous]

Why does the Race Track get a free out? Work on it !!

You want to make all the big money holding these big events, great, put out the effort to provide a good race track. You cant offer that cancel the race.

All the flips i have seen the tracks are garbage.

[Jking24]

Why does the Race Track get a free out? Work on it !!You want to big all the big money holding these big events, great, put out the effort to provide a good race track. You cant offer that cancel the race.All the flips i have seen the tracks are garbage.Now that I definitely agree with

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

King1,

Tech would take hours for 30 cars.

[Dirt Clod]

Nice post hardracer 32. And Kromulous.

Clearly you make great points about the the bodies, costs and safety. These late models are leaning over so far on the right rear that flips are bound to happen. Body styles are ridiculous.

Amen to the track prep. Maybe it is too early after watching Florence and Brownstown the past two weekends. My beef with Btown is the lighting. It's the darkest track I go to all year. I never see any improvements to their lighting. Saturday night they finally turned on the front stretch lights over the grandstand when it was dusk. And then it took time for them to warm up. $32 admission ought to leave some $$$ for fairboard capital improvements.

[hardracer32]

I'm not saying that tracks get a free pass on proper pret, etc. I'm just addressing the car issue. Good track prep is definitely key, but our industry should have pulled these bodies back a long time ago. Ya'll may think I'm crazy but I actually emailed LOL and WOW about this BS. I practically begged them to take a look at the situation and come together and do something. Maybe if we could get a bunch of folks including fans and drivers to start filling up their inboxes with messages they might start to listen.....maybe. I doubt it, but I tried it anyway. I'm a nobody so I'm pretty sure that email just got deleted without a second thought.

[crownman25]

heres the probb some places some night some tracks the mods and stock cars are sooooo soft in the rf that the right front corner of the frame gouges big holes out..........one other thing what holiday inn did the guy that ran the dozer stay at the night before?i

[crownman25]

rule changes needed no bump stops,no stack springs,no proggressive spings no coil over covers, standard coil over springs lets eliminate all the secret magic and make it easier and alot simpler for everyone!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

rule changes needed no bump stops,no stack springs,no proggressive spings no coil over covers, standard coil over springs lets eliminate all the secret magic and make it easier and alot simpler for everyone!

Go carts are simple

[Josh Bayko]

Just making the bodies straight, flat, and symmetrical would work wonders, but I’m not holding my breath that they’ll ever do that.

[Action10]

Seems to me like we are waiting for a modern day Bob Memmer to fix this, because I don't see anything changing without a person like that entering the equation.

[BloomerWon]

Does the track adjust to the car or the car to the track?

That, is the question of the day...

[Buford.Justice]

The race cars back around 1980 were pretty good spec wise. The lexan was not that expensive either actually.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/98/2b/33982b91da25572a6d93a765aff3b7a8.jpg

[In The Gas]

Does the track adjust to the car or the car to the track?

That, is the question of the day...

No doubt! I can’t believe all the b!tching about the track. I’ve seen a lot worse tracks than Brownstown was Saturday. I thought the idea behind racing was the guy with the best set up and biggest nut sack won the race. If you think you might flip then change your set up or lift. I’m pissed because they didn’t continue on cause the feature was going to be great.
Why are the drivers who flipped getting a pass on this? Slow down if you can’t handle the conditions.

[King1]

King1,

Tech would take hours for 30 cars.

Then allot more time for tech inspection and start early in the morning. You can’t stop guys from getting smarter, so you have to paint them into a box. If the box is tech inspection then so be it.

The bodies wouldn’t take very long and checking for one spring per corner wouldn’t be a big deal. However enforcing the shock deal would be difficult unless you mandated that the series provide the shocks or simply make them run twin tubes.

I just don’t know how you cut costs without making more rules and being tougher in tech inspection. Again you can’t trust a racer on a handshake, and you can’t keep them from learning new things and getting smarter.

But fixing the bodies would certainly stop a lot of what is going on right now

Checking for excessive droop, an 8” spoiler, deck height, split birdcages and the correct tire for the event isn’t tech inspection, it’s checking a box and checking boxes and going through the motions isnt doing the sport any favors.

Whether you like it or not, it’s headed in this direction and if they continue to let it go down this path then the bodies will be flatter, more sideways, shock technology will continue to evolve into more expensive technology, we’ll be running 8 springs on each corner, everyone will need an EMA dyno, and before you know it, nobody will waste their time running a national touring series because Mark Richards and everyone will continue to spoon feed you information with every 50k you spent. Only catch is that you’ll never obtain the names of the resources they work with to build speed.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

King1,

That's why I was serious about monoleaf. Then who cares what is in the shock? You can't get much hike from a shackle and eye. It's gotta be easy to enforce rules that would have a huge impact. Fancy shocks don't cause rollovers anyway. The rr being at the center of gravity, and high dynamic CG does.

It's easier to have rules that make technology useless, than to find where you made them hide it. We don't have time to dyno and disassemble shocks. I agree the bodies are stupid. I been saying that for years.

I mean Steve Francis couldn't even find 3 bars on the lr of the 28 Kryptonite car last night.

[84wedge]

I said during the Brownstown race that the cars are half rolled over anyway, they just need a little nudge in the right direction to go the rest of the way. If tracks were never smooth to begin with DLM's wouldn't have got where they are today. Richard Petty said something along the lines of dirt track racing used to be about getting through ruts and holes, now it's pretty much like asphalt.

[84wedge]

At least they were straight!https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/5c/14/825c1482d225768ef9fd9397d2e304e6.jpg

[ZERO25]

Like one driver told me, the cats outa the bag now!

Whatever rule they pass, we'll spend whatever it takes to get it back!

[HoosierDirtFan]

Update from Fast Eddy him self.

https://www.facebook.com/fastest.eddy/posts/10215929601587700

[buster83]

the cars today are built for dry track racing brownstown track was wet in turns 1 & 4 the best thing the track could do is put in some drainage system in the turns were the water lays.

[crownman25]

sooo painting people in a corner with rules ? lets just go back to a open tire rule the days of 70 mounted tires and wheels, you get the picture?how do you guys know if the 3 or 18 didnt break a rf shock end off when it hit on the bump?

[crownman25]

also there is a big big probb with the lower class rf frame gouging holes in the track.

[crownman25]

could you imagine what the track would be like if the super cars never raised the rf frame rail up?

[3 wide]

They announced during the night that they were going to get grant for 200 thousand an total renovation of the grandstands they night think about spending some money on the track the track was rough from the beginning I have been there many times never seen it when they couldn't race on it I have been there when it came a flood at 5 o'clock an they still raced.

[MachineMasters]

Maybe extra soft left rear springs aren't a smart choice on a track like that.

Teams are 100% allowed to reduce LR drop and run stiffer LR spring rates. Yet when enough teams don't listen to the track conditions and flip, the series postpones the event until conditions are more favorable to standard racecar setups..

[Buford.Justice]

They announced during the night that they were going to get grant for 200 thousand an total renovation of the grandstands they night think about spending some money on the track the track was rough from the beginning I have been there many times never seen it when they couldn't race on it I have been there when it came a flood at 5 o'clock an they still raced.

Many of the seat boards do need to be replaced.

[FlatTire]

If limited droop fixes all the problems why hasn't the Ray Cook series taken over?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If limited droop fixes all the problems why hasn't the Ray Cook series taken over?

Ray limits droop just enough to make you mad. It does nothing to really alter the dynamics of the car, from the standpoint of rollover prevention.

The location of the rr tire, with respect to the rf, is a big problem too.

[Kromulous]

Another point, if a Driver wants to go out there on a track that is rough and soft, all pinned down on bump stops, so be it. Dont come back whining when you rolled it, flipped it or whatever. There has to be a point where personal responsibility / liability takes over. We dont live in a padded / fur lined World, so stop trying to make it that way.

Same with Tracks, and my post before about them. You want to make the big bucks, put in the work, or dont have the race, and stop handing out excuses galore after all the bad press comes out about your race. Every time there is a corn cob of a track to have to race on, and people complain, you see some excuse about rain, tractor broke, fell and broke my a$$ or whatever, im tired of hearing it.

Basically, its a BIG BOY world, you want to do stupid things, you can win stupid prizes...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Another point, if a Driver wants to go out there on a track that is rough and soft, all pinned down on bump stops, so be it. Dont come back whining when you rolled it, flipped it or whatever. There has to be a point where personal responsibility / liability takes over. We dont live in a padded / fur lined World, so stop trying to make it that way.

Same with Tracks, and my post before about them. You want to make the big bucks, put in the work, or dont have the race, and stop handing out excuses galore after all the bad press comes out about your race. Every time there is a corn cob of a track to have to race on, and people complain, you see some excuse about rain, tractor broke, fell and broke my a$$ or whatever, im tired of hearing it.

Basically, its a BIG BOY world, you want to do stupid things, you can win stupid prizes...

There's a whole lot of truth to what you say as well. The teams have call the adjustments in the world. Use them.

[Buford.Justice]

I said during the Brownstown race that the cars are half rolled over anyway, they just need a little nudge in the right direction to go the rest of the way. If tracks were never smooth to begin with DLM's wouldn't have got where they are today. Richard Petty said something along the lines of dirt track racing used to be about getting through ruts and holes, now it's pretty much like asphalt.

Yes I agree, sadly many tracks are letting the drivers tell the promoters how to prep the track.

[Paradox28]

Yes I agree, sadly many tracks are letting the drivers tell the promoters how to prep the track.Thing is, if a track has even just 1 rough spot everyone and their mama is yapping about it all over the internet. If its dry, they are yapping about it..if its too wet, they are yapping about it. Somewhere along the way we've forgotten that dirt is unpredictable and thats part of the charm.

[obamaracing#1]

Really informative thread 👍👍👍👍👍

[ride height]

All valid points. SLM racing isn’t at a crossroads. They’ll either fix it and survive with a good bit of folks able to continue doing it , or they won’t, and only a few will remain. Grass roots, family type teams will no longer exist. It’s completely out of control. I like watching speed as much as the next guy, but things are WAY out of whack. Only benefitting a few, and alienating many.

[ride height]

Won’t let me edit...its ..”IS AT A CROSSROADS..

[grt74]

tracks the way i see it, and for experience of being there in this situation
411 (hang over)
hot laps, track was crazy fast and soft but mostly smooth
qualifying , sun was out dried top of the race track,
race (and they didn't give any hot laps before the feature so no way of knowing it got that bad, no heats, locked in) rough hooked up 4 cars finished
the other classes (street stock and the 4 cylinders) open wheels and street stocks are dragging the rf corner because of todays setups and they dig in because of the rule, they won't let them cut it there, also the 4 cylinders skinny wheels and tires (with the wrong camber) just roll the track up when its that soft
don't know about brownstown but I'm sure the same effect could be said
todays cars have a ton of rr grip, and with the knowledge out there on how to do it, the cats out of the bag

[Jim11h]

411 wasn't that bad, it had character. Don't like bumps drive around them. Hedge(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) did so while leading but screwed up and hit restart wrong and got bumps in both corners