How much would changing the body rules help?

[YeetIt]

Especially at the bigger places but DJ hit the nail on the head lastnight at WVMS talking about how we are not far off wedge racing sometimes with these cars. The bigger tracks are the most obvious where guys push like a sled on entry beheind someone else. Would going back to the early 2000's era rules make a difference?

[davis2902]

Enforcing the current rules would help......

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Enforcing the current rules would help......

Rewinding to even 2015 would help even more. Part of the problem is the rules change to make guys legal again. Then those rules aren't enforced either.

The racing is junk now.

[EvelB7]

Getting the body rules straight would make a huge difference. The problem is everyone is afraid to run off the big names and actually do it. What the Extreme (Doug Bland) did in the early 2000's was on the right track, unfortunately money won out and we are no better for it (all my opinion of course).

[Mike]

It’s never going to happen. A minority has complained for years about the direction the bodies were heading, but the majority think the modern day bodies “look cool”. They don’t care what it’s doing to the sport as long as it “looks cool”

I have been calling them the modern day wedge for a few years now and always got push back from the but they look cool crowd.


One example Davenport just last year was one of the it “looks cool crowd”.

https://twitter.com/thefast49/status...339572226?s=21

[Action10]

Getting the body rules straight would make a huge difference. The problem is everyone is afraid to run off the big names and actually do it. What the Extreme (Doug Bland) did in the early 2000's was on the right track, unfortunately money won out and we are no better for it (all my opinion of course).I think his biggest downfall was Goodyear tires, not what he was doing with bodies...

[dirtcrazy4u]

The #1 problem is getting woo and Lucas to sit down together and come up with a set of rules everyone can agree on. The way it stands right now, if one series decides to go back 10 to 15 yrs and reel in the bodies and the other series says we are not changing. Well you can guess what that outcome will be.

Remember bodies are cheap. Whats a slm take today 8 sheets to bend a body. When I was buying sheet aluminum it was 36.00 a sheet, I have no idea what it cost today. 70 to 80 ?

[YeetIt]

Its been the biggest change since I was last in the pit area. The decks are all dished, the spoilers are laid out on the rr corner and straight up in the lr, basically no window panels, curved doors, different ears. All of said sh1t would have caught an earful from a tech guy last time I was around.

[JimBo]

The sport needs somebody in power to come forward and establish a set of standardized rules and the sanctions need to enforce them. Who is going to step up and be the next Bob Memmer?

[JabberJaws83]

Steve Francis, the track photographer and the sprint car driver have zero incentive to change or enforce the body rules. They want to keep a certain percentage of drivers happy and don’t give two craps about the local/regional guy. A Bob Memmer is needed so bad because the drivers are their own worst enemy and the powers that be are catering to the top dogs of the sport. It’s a slow death that is half way there

[noitall93w]

Francis and shuman are different series numb nuts

[Morgs153]

The 900 pound gorilla in the room is wearing a wedge style body on it. The trouble is, every dirt late model (super, limited, crate, etc.) in this country and a couple others all looks the same. They've all inch-wormed their way into cheat-land. I really never thought Steve Francis was ever going to un-ring the bell in regards to body rules. It is too far gone and beyond one head tech man in one series.

The least expensive race car is the one sitting in the shop/trailer right now, as it is. Change a rule, it adds an expense - even if the rule is one designed to save money. The change costs money. Does anyone think they could realistically and uniformly have every DLM change their bodies now? Remember way back when they actually used to mold different noses for different makes?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The 900 pound gorilla in the room is wearing a wedge style body on it. The trouble is, every dirt late model (super, limited, crate, etc.) in this country and a couple others all looks the same. They've all inch-wormed their way into cheat-land. I really never thought Steve Francis was ever going to un-ring the bell in regards to body rules. It is too far gone and beyond one head tech man in one series.

The least expensive race car is the one sitting in the shop/trailer right now, as it is. Change a rule, it adds an expense - even if the rule is one designed to save money. The change costs money. Does anyone think they could realistically and uniformly have every DLM change their bodies now? Remember way back when they actually used to mold different noses for different makes?

Every race car gets a new body every winter. The big teams replace them almost weekly. It's not a big deal.

They sure can cheat them up pretty fast. There are rocket cars out there right now where the right spoiler piece is 3 or 4 inches wider, yet the left side of the car is unchanged. Those cars looked normal and boom, then they didn't.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Francis and shuman are different series numb nuts

I'm pretty sure he knows that. Those two series are the only things that matter at this point. If they decide a spec hood scoop is needed, it will hit every other set of rules by next year.

[Josh Bayko]

Just making everything straight and symmetrical would help a ton and not even change the look of the cars in any significant manner. That won’t happen until a few chassis and body manufacturers say it does. They won’t say that until their chassis sales are significantly reduced. Then the body part and chassis manufacturers will make giant piles of money as everybody gets “into spec” and they’ll wonder why they didn’t do it sooner.

If crates didn’t exist, this scenario would have happened already. It

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Bayko,

If they do anything, it will probably be the spec route, you just mentioned. Everyone has to buy all their panels from a manufacturer. You think $500 nose kits are bad? A body will cost more than we have in our roller.

[EvelB7]

I think his biggest downfall was Goodyear tires, not what he was doing with bodies...I agree, I wasn't referencing the body per say but the way things were run (not bending to the names). The only time I have ever received free tires was running with them...Granted, the quality of the tire sucked but it was a start and everyone had the same junk tire. How much power does a tire manufacturer have?-Extreme is gone and there are races being cancelled in present day as we speak...

[JabberJaws83]

I'm pretty sure he knows that. Those two series are the only things that matter at this point. If they decide a spec hood scoop is needed, it will hit every other set of rules by next year.

Yep, apparently I need to break it all down for numb nutty there. But yeah, you got it.
I woulda thrown Kenneda in there too, but I believe he just does what he’s told from above. Francis was actually brought in to make a difference on enforcing/making rules. I haven’t seen where he had made a lick of difference.
In my opinion, they need to start with the decks.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Decks wouldn't be a terrible place to start. They never should have left 36". They should be checked after the race. There shouldn't be any 300# guys bouncing on the rear bumper.

The aero push racing is the fault of the noses as well. Ever put ones from 2000, 2010, and 2021 side by side?

[JabberJaws83]

Yep, between the new noses and the sloped decks, it is indeed a glorified “wedge” car

[MRM]

The #1 problem is getting woo and Lucas to sit down together and come up with a set of rules everyone can agree on.

There have been some preliminary talks between the two. Francis was at the Richmond WoO race going over some things with the tech folks and was later revealed in a driver's meeting that both sides have talked about this, but not to expect any changes for this season. Whether anything happens next season, that remains to be seen. It could be 5-6 months before any changes are announced.

[dirty-white-boy]

Full disclosure. I have not been to a Live DLM event for almost 2 years until this past weekend. Its one thing to watch TV but to see these cars up close is sad to a guy that has followed the sport for 40 plus years. When did the RF stick out over a foot past the RR? All these decks that are dished for the wedge effect. The travel on the RF has to be upwards of 15 inches on some cars! 450 motocross bikes have 12in of travel for comparison.

Seems the only way to pass with the current rules is a slide job type of pass.
Just like Rick Eckert's answer when Rigsby asked him why you dont see many drivers as friends like you used to back in the 90s and 2000's he said "because you pass them going in now"

[Tireguy17]

There have been some preliminary talks between the two. Francis was at the Richmond WoO race going over some things with the tech folks and was later revealed in a driver's meeting that both sides have talked about this, but not to expect any changes for this season. Whether anything happens next season, that remains to be seen. It could be 5-6 months before any changes are announced.

Per the Rigsby Report podcast with Rick Schwallie, Francis was at the WoO Richmond race and WoO officials were to be at the Show Me 100. Its progress.

[chathamracefan]

I'm not a tech guy by any stretch, but it seems something needs to be done. The car counts at a lot of the regional type of shows are way off. You see some $5k shows drawing less than 20 for example. Summernationals counts have dropped off also. Farmer City used to draw 50 plus in the mid 2000's & now runs around 30 or so. This doesn't even begin to speak to the weekly racing scene. The few tracks that run supers in Illinois sometimes struggle to draw 15 cars (outside FALS & the Pevely/Highland combo deal this year). Hopefully both groups realize that & can act before it is too late.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Per the Rigsby Report podcast with Rick Schwallie, Francis was at the WoO Richmond race and WoO officials were to be at the Show Me 100. Its progress.

They spend way too much time worrying about banning axle front ends or some ones new shock, if the people making money complain. They care nothing for the elephants in the room.

[Mike]

They spend way too much time worrying about banning axle front ends or some ones new shock, if the people making money complain. They care nothing for the elephants in the room.

I would argue that they turned a blind eye to the elephant in the room while they were busy selling tires.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I would argue that they turned a blind eye to the elephant in the room while they were busy selling tires.

That isn't wrong either

[kidrock]

The biggest problem in racing has been not enforcing the rules they already have in place. That has been a problem for many years now and that's not only in the late model class

[YeetIt]

One thing I noticed on the XR1 was the adjustable spoiler trees right off the bat to raise/lower the spoiler. What used to be a pain in the a$$ to adjust/change because we never did now takes seconds. I figured as soon as I saw it that it was designed to be rolled through tech legal and adjusted after and hope they don't check rear deck height afterwards. I remember this getting to be a huge issue in mods as well when a couple of certain drivers started winning every money mod race there was.

[dirtcrazy4u]

You guys keep talking about car counts. Car counts have been dwindling for years. The major players didn't care because there was still enough cars around to give them strong fields. Well those numbers have now caught up to the point that lucas and woo are starting to see it. Sponsor dollars are dropping like a rock. Your local top slm cars that can't afford to or don't want that expense are either getting out or picking and choosing. And as much as I hate to say it, covid has hurt a lot of teams sponsor wise.

[dirtcrazy4u]

In the end. Will body rules or similar rules make much of a difference in car counts. I highly doubt it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

In the end. Will body rules or similar rules make much of a difference in car counts. I highly doubt it.

It did back in the early 80s. If the rules add 2 or 3 tenths to a lap time, it brings a lot of budgets back in. The hard part is convincing people they don't have to go broke.

[Mopar DLM]

If they did actually fix some of the body rules what are the chances that some of the older cars out there become competitive again? Might that also help the car count come back some? Some of the people that can't afford a brand new chassis every year or the latest and greatest trick of the week could start racing again and still be halfway competitive and maybe have some fun along the way too.

[EvelB7]

I can only speak for myself, with the current rules you cannot be competitive (even in a regional series) with a bit older equipment these days. Cars are way to easy to hook up and the racing is not as good (in my opinion). My car owner (that nasty crate word) would go super racing in a heart beat if I told him we could be competitive. He cannot afford to put $100,000 in a car. Take away some body and tire, put the driver's feet back into the equation and I would tell him we could give it an honest try...Cars running wide open all of the time just shows who has the deepest pockets (and yes, crates show the same on that scale it is just more affordable). Unfortunately you cannot unscrew the pregnant girlfriend...

[billetbirdcage]

If they did actually fix some of the body rules what are the chances that some of the older cars out there become competitive again? Might that also help the car count come back some? Some of the people that can't afford a brand new chassis every year or the latest and greatest trick of the week could start racing again and still be halfway competitive and maybe have some fun along the way too.

I firmly believe that the number one reason for people to get out and move down to crates or new people not move up from crates to supers is the engine costs. Obviously there are all sorts of costs to run with the larger series just from a competition level so that doesn't really change. What I'm talking about is guys that could run at a certain level like locally or a regional series to guys running small series that could move to a larger one. That being said:

More aero = more grip thus you need more motor = big purchase expense and more importantly more operating expense. Get rid of the grip and a 750HP engine could qualify up front and still have too much power come feature (again for an average track, not all tracks are like this for sure)

It's sort of ridiculous that we have 900 HP 9000+ RPM engines which YES, we may use every bit of it for qualifying but come heat race time or feature never get over 40% throttle and are installing restrictor plates, removing timing, changing carbs, and etc to make it more driver friendly.

I don't really believe that a body change will allow older cars (not updated or modified to something more current) is gonna happen, but it would/might allow that cost to be reduced enough some guys could afford the engine package enough to go back to racing supers.

I asked Andy Durham the cost of parts for a RY45 engine (new build) just a couple weeks ago (all parts, no machining or labor) he said 52K. Add in labor, dyno, machining and parts unique to it:

Oil pump 1600.00
Oil tank 1150.00
Headers 2300.00
carb ???

You get the idea

[Bill31]

I hate these LM now , they look like they were built around a pole lol .

[racedad11]

UMP, Woo and Lucas oil all working together teching cars today. i mean yesturday