49 deck height?

[Kryptonite17]

Has anyone else noticed how high JD’s rear deck height seems to look this weekend? Much higher than usual from my perspective. Even next to Sheppard before the start last night I felt like there was a noticeable difference.

[orange28fan]

I did have that thought yesterday, for whatever reason the angle they were showing him in the heat today too. The rear hike looked different compared to others. It was noticeable

[mskdorf]

Must be new age “DEVICE “. LOL. Whatever they are doing is working. They are fast and seem to be able to put the car anywhere they want on the track and he passes tech. 75 laps tonight. I’m thinking 49 and 44 going to put on a show.

[zyoung25]

I watched him at wvms. Used to be the guys would hang on to the LR to get the rear down before it was measured. I personally watched him do this after qualifying and his heat win. Before he pulled into the tech area, he would crank the steering all the way to right and it looked like he was even moving around inside the car to help get the LR down even more. Nobody else done this that I seen.

I'm not exactly sure what he was doing when he done that, but there must be a reason for it.

Clearly they have found grey area in the rule.

[Josh Bayko]

There isn’t a legal car on the track, but most Longhorns are laughably beyond the rule book. There isn’t a tech guy on the sport with any kind of balls.

[Pennsboro32]

Yep, that JD car looks wild.

[TerryM]

I still laugh every time I see a tech guy break out a $5 Harbor Freight tape measure to pull a measurement to determine if a guy is legal or not in a race that pays $30,000 … $50,000 … or $100,000+ to win.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Droop rule has replaced the static deck height check. 49 was like that at Eldora too.

[Morgs153]

I noticed this too. On the left side the door panel doesn't seem to agree with the match line of the rear quarter and the left rear corner seems jacked compared to other cars. The supposed straight line of the top of the fender line from front to back, well, really isn't.

But hey, Steve Francis is on it, so I'm not concerned.

[KTMLew]

I suggested a droop stick in a discussion somewhere else. Got ridiculed of course. Piece of 1" square tubing with 12" base/foot. Have a 1/4" bolt thru top sticking out inch or so @51". 1/4" hole in spoiler/deck bar 6" from LR corner. If hole in car is below the bolt, you pass. If bolt goes in hole, you better tweak something just a little.

Seems simple enough? What am I missing? Why measure in a way you could fudge the angle a bit?

Everyone could build this out of a scrap T bar. Cost would be maybe 10 minutes of time.

[Raceready]

I suggested a droop stick in a discussion somewhere else. Got ridiculed of course. Piece of 1" square tubing with 12" base/foot. Have a 1/4" bolt thru top sticking out inch or so @51". 1/4" hole in spoiler/deck bar 6" from LR corner. If hole in car is below the bolt, you pass. If bolt goes in hole, you better tweak something just a little.Seems simple enough? What am I missing? Why measure in a way you could fudge the angle a bit?Everyone could build this out of a scrap T bar. Cost would be maybe 10 minutes of time.Great post ! ! !It sounds as if it is just too much common sense for the series to use ! ! They could easily fabricate a " GO or NO GO " tool that take away any doubt as far as legality. Have they not seen how other series have templates in use to keep things on the up and up ?

[TerryM]

I’ve suggested the droop stick multiple times. It would make too much sense. And of course it will eliminate the fudging of the measurement. That’s the real reason they use the $5 tape measure.

[KTMLew]

They really need a way to measure the body location first. Really not sure how you do that unless all the chassis were the same. Is there a rule on rear axle tube length? Maybe a jig of some type aligned with bells on housing extending back and then rotating up over the rear of body? All measuring should be done on the scales. Only reasonably flat place at the track.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

They really need a way to measure the body location first. Really not sure how you do that unless all the chassis were the same. Is there a rule on rear axle tube length? Maybe a jig of some type aligned with bells on housing extending back and then rotating up over the rear of body? All measuring should be done on the scales. Only reasonably flat place at the track.

They just need to square off the rear wheels and the whole car must fit in a defined box.

[KTMLew]

They just need to square off the rear wheels and the whole car must fit in a defined box.

Sounds reasonable.

[Josh Bayko]

They just need to make the bodies straight, flat and symmetrical and things would be better and not significantly change the look of the cars.

[KTMLew]

http://www.dirtfans.com/FreddySmith.html

Look where we were, then it got REALLY crazy, then back to earth.

Still find it hard to believe, nobody here knows who the Custom Chassis builders are/were?

[Highside Hustler25]

JDs car has that stance of a demo derby car that's been hit in the azz one too many times.
Looking at pictures on DoD, his is definitely more bent than any other car.

[Kryptonite17]

I recall it looking like this early this year then I felt like it wasn’t as bad for a few months but it’s definitely way higher this weekend.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You actually need a stacker to field a competitive body.

[KTMLew]

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?409744-Longhorn-Are-The-Twisted-Sister-of-DLM

[dirtcrazy4u]

I've stated many times I like the look of today's supers. Well since they decided to have them look like they currently do. Forget about it. I don't understand why they don't want to get this under control. Supers are getting to the point you really have to be on your game to run up front. Downforce, sideforce, pinned LF, spoilers up so high in the corners I wonder what the guy tucked in tight can really see.

Somebody needs to grow and set and say enough is enough. With both series, unless they sit down together and come up with unified rules it's just never going to happen. Tire sample, anyone.

[Mike]

I've stated many times I like the look of today's supers. Well since they decided to have them look like they currently do. Forget about it. I don't understand why they don't want to get this under control. Supers are getting to the point you really have to be on your game to run up front. Downforce, sideforce, pinned LF, spoilers up so high in the corners I wonder what the guy tucked in tight can really see.

Somebody needs to grow and set and say enough is enough. With both series, unless they sit down together and come up with unified rules it's just never going to happen. Tire sample, anyone.

Give them an inch they will take a mile. I wish they would have tried to reign it in 10 years ago when a small group warned this was the direction they were heading. It’s good to see more people on the board against these monstrosities now. It may be too little to late though.

[Kryptonite17]

Doesn’t seem to help him much in traffic anyway.

[t3r3e3]

JDs car has that stance of a demo derby car that's been hit in the azz one too many times.
Looking at pictures on DoD, his is definitely more bent than any other car.

It looks like a tornado car half bent around a tree. He!!, they’re all twisted and bent. Some guys are mounting the left sail panel to stick just above the roof and create a little lip for more sidebite. Bodies are out of
control.

[Morgs153]

Not that I dislike the look of today's supers, because I do like them compared to any other racing. But that being said, every time I see DoD run photos of Throwback Thursday and see photos of cars from around 2005 (give or take a few years) I think, those were some of the better looking dirt late models of the modern era. There was still that identity thing with the noses and sail panels that they were trying to adhere to, the bodies were more symmetrical, and overall they were just very good looking race cars. They have evolved a good bit back toward wedge cars.

It might be time to just drop the name "late models" from the description and call them Dirt Supers (like some already do).

[Raceready]

The cars have basically turned into glorified modified that has some front fenders on them. . .

[Stefan2k20]

It seems to me, the old wedge cars actually looked better that the "twisted" cars we see today. That raises the question why not just bring them back? At least they were somewhat symmetrical, except for the sideboards. By outlawing the wedge bodies all we did was encourage them to find "workarounds" like designing the suspension in such a way that it hikes the rearend way up in the air. In essence, "killing" the wedge car gave us what we have today and the result is cars that are even more ridiculous and distorted looking. Of course, this is just my opinion.

[Mike]

It seems to me, the old wedge cars actually looked better that the "twisted" cars we see today. That raises the question why not just bring them back? At least they were somewhat symmetrical, except for the sideboards. By outlawing the wedge bodies all we did was encourage them to find "workarounds" like designing the suspension in such a way that it hikes the rearend way up in the air. In essence, "killing" the wedge car gave us what we have today and the result is cars that are even more ridiculous and distorted looking. Of course, this is just my opinion.

If the rules had been enforced it wouldn’t have gotten out of hand again and we wouldn’t have the modern day wedge.

[Stefan2k20]

Yeah, but that's the problem with rules, you gotta enforce them and it's why sometimes it's better not to have them. Rules also encourage teams to find tricks to work around them and accomplish the same end. So, it becomes a never ending game. And those workarounds just become more creative and complex and often times more expensive.

[King1]

The droop rule is even being cheated, and it’s so blatantly obvious on how they’re doing it and Steve Francis won’t say a word. Lucas needs a new technical director and officials in general.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yeah, but that's the problem with rules, you gotta enforce them and it's why sometimes it's better not to have them. Rules also encourage teams to find tricks to work around them and accomplish the same end. So, it becomes a never ending game. And those workarounds just become more creative and complex and often times more expensive.

Enforcement of the simple body rules was not a never ending game. We got here by allowing everything to go unchecked. When you allow a wedge car to be built, but attack angle a little off, of course getting the attack angle right is a benefit.

[Andrews42FAN]

It's also amazing that the Jacked Up 49 seems to be in most every heat that decides who sits on the pole of any given race and 9 out of 10 times sits on the front row of the heat.....

[t3r3e3]

It's also amazing that the Jacked Up 49 seems to be in most every heat that decides who sits on the pole of any given race and 9 out of 10 times sits on the front row of the heat.....

No conspiracy there….he qualifies well, usually Top 2-4 in his group.

[Pennsboro32]

I thought Francis was going to save DLM racing.

[Josh Bayko]

I thought Francis was going to save DLM racing.

He’s got way too many friends in the sport to make any real difference. The sport needs a complete outsider that’s kind of an as*hole and not afraid to piss people off to actually enforce the rules to the letter.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I thought Francis was going to save DLM racing.

I'm still trying to figure out where that idea came from.

[84wedge]

How is the droop rule being cheated?

[cjsracing]

How is the droop rule being cheated?

I'm not going into details, but I did some changes to my car this weekend that will give me an extra but will still measure within the rules.

[dirty-white-boy]

I thought Francis was going to save DLM racing.

I seriously just spit out my Boosh Latte!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I'm not going into details, but I did some changes to my car this weekend that will give me an extra but will still measure within the rules.

That's not cheating. It's just maximizing a stupid rule. There's a lot that can be done. Some pretty risk free and others that may create some new problems for you.

[King1]

There’s a pic of it on the rocket1 twitter. It’s pretty obvious.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Ok, somebody get the pic up so we can make all the wild accusations.

[KTMLew]

Ok, somebody get the pic up so we can make all the wild accusations.

I've given up on linking pictures. This site just barely works.

[Raceready]

I thought Francis was going to save DLM racing.Maybe " The Kentucky Colonel " needs to be busted back down to " The Kentucky Corporal " ? ?

[Drop Shock]

So is he running less LR droop now, or is it an optical illusion since they have the middle deck bar cut down and lowered?

[jog49]

NASCAR became a waste of time from nit-picky BS such as how many threads a bolt has on its shaft, etc. Now it's being moved over to dirt late models and will ruin that too.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

NASCAR became a waste of time from nit-picky BS such as how many threads a bolt has on its shaft, etc. Now it's being moved over to dirt late models and will ruin that too.

It's already happened. There's only so many late models left and we are not supporting races because we didn't buy all the new parts we were required to get each winter just to pass new stupid rules. It's frustrating.

[KTMLew]

It's already happened. There's only so many late models left and we are not supporting races because we didn't buy all the new parts we were required to get each winter just to pass new stupid rules. It's frustrating.

I've seen the other side of this in every 4 wheeled vehicle racing I've participated in. Somebody (normally the guy with unlimited resources) consistently gets outrun and screams about RULES! WE HAVE TOO MANY RULES! Translation: I HAVE MONEY TO SPEND! That opens the door for an "unlimited" class which in less than two seasons goes broke. Have 6 vehicles racing at most.

They need MORE rules if anything. SIMPLE rules. Consistently enforced body rules. Nobody seems to whine about rolling across the scales? Shocks? Get rid of reservoir quad adjustable shocks. Pick a Monroe Magnum that works. NO MODS ALLOWED! Get rid of coilovers. No 4-links. No aluminum suspension components. Either 3-link with big coils or leaf springs. Big coils on front. Weight jacks. Roll the whole industry back 50 years.

Will the people building parts just jack the prices up? Probably.

[KTMLew]

Another Longhorn body. Look how far the air cleaner assembly sticks thru the hood? Their bodies are way lower at front of deck t-bar which makes the whole interior a big scoop.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZj0MTuWAAEwtXU?format=jpg&name=medium

[Rajflyboy]

Another Longhorn body. Look how far the air cleaner assembly sticks thru the hood? Their bodies are way lower at front of deck t-bar which makes the whole interior a big scoop. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZj0MTuWAAEwtXU?format=jpg&name=mediumAhhhh. The sneaky wedge car 😁

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I've seen the other side of this in every 4 wheeled vehicle racing I've participated in. Somebody (normally the guy with unlimited resources) consistently gets outrun and screams about RULES! WE HAVE TOO MANY RULES! Translation: I HAVE MONEY TO SPEND! That opens the door for an "unlimited" class which in less than two seasons goes broke. Have 6 vehicles racing at most.

They need MORE rules if anything. SIMPLE rules. Consistently enforced body rules. Nobody seems to whine about rolling across the scales? Shocks? Get rid of reservoir quad adjustable shocks. Pick a Monroe Magnum that works. NO MODS ALLOWED! Get rid of coilovers. No 4-links. No aluminum suspension components. Either 3-link with big coils or leaf springs. Big coils on front. Weight jacks. Roll the whole industry back 50 years.

Will the people building parts just jack the prices up? Probably.

All those simple rules have already existed and served us well for decades. They were left for dead and then we started down the road of limitless, stupid rules. Simple body and weight rules are the foundation.

4 links are not expensive. Aluminum is not expensive. Nothing from 1990 is expensive. Shocks? I don't care if every guy I'm racing against has 4 way shocks. The ones I've had for 15 years and revalved are not giving up anything. Replacing that stuff above is expensive...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Dirt late models are not in any way comparable to a stock 4 cylinder class where guys want to build engines. It isn't like a street stock class where guys want bigger engine and Bert trans. In those scenarios, you have to buy more stuff to keep up with the rules.

In the case of DLM, lack of rules enforcement has required more engine to keep pace. It's the exact opposite situation. 1000# of downforce has been added because heads are in the sand. Sure, guys buy ever more expensive shocks, and axles, and shiny bolt on trinkets. Those are voluntary expenditures, just as the toter to pull 25 miles is. They do not add game-changing speed. The speed has come from geometry changes and aero.

[ride height]

I like innovation….but if you’re going to have these rules….then yes…the bodies are way beyond ridiculous. Either enforce the rules….or just say “have at it”. Because as of now…there is NFW these bodies are within the rules. At least as I read them.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Eliminate the elephant ears up front

Square the body off the rear axle

Interior body can have a max 4" dish from the air cleaner to the rear spoiler

Simple, yet no one wants to do it. Make the announcement early, some come 2023 everybody will have the chance to rebody what they have. It's not the chassis so much as it has become that dreaded word aero push.

[bleedblue55]

Remember when the UMP Mods announced last winter about rules to straighten all the body panels in regard to Nick Hoffman's car. That sure slowed him down this year in the Summer Nationals. Sarcasm intended.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Remember when the UMP Mods announced last winter about rules to straighten all the body panels in regard to Nick Hoffman's car. That sure slowed him down this year in the Summer Nationals. Sarcasm intended.

It really straightened his car too. Sarcasm again.

[Highside Hustler25]

Remember when the UMP Mods announced last winter about rules to straighten all the body panels in regard to Nick Hoffman's car. That sure slowed him down this year in the Summer Nationals. Sarcasm intended.

That body didn't change at all this year. If anything it's worse. That's not where the speed is coming from tho.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Hoffman out drives everyone of them. That body looks no different to me from last year. Hoffman has that car rolling thru the corners better than anyone out there. I think given time he could be one of the elite drivers in a slm. I think Scott is making a huge mistake in not putting Hoffman in the car full time.

[Paradox28]

It really straightened his car too. Sarcasm again.I was gonna say this...lol. Hoffmans along with several other modifieds are just as twisted as before. He's definitely doing something different suspension wise because his cars attitude is very different than even other elites on track. More than once, this year, I've seen him packing the LF while no one else is.Anyway, every rule sounds great and easy when you're sitting in comfy rooms in the winter thinking of ways you're going to save the sport. It becomes a lot less inviting when its 90, dusty, and you're on the road all the time.

[cjsracing]

I've seen the other side of this in every 4 wheeled vehicle racing I've participated in. Somebody (normally the guy with unlimited resources) consistently gets outrun and screams about RULES! WE HAVE TOO MANY RULES! Translation: I HAVE MONEY TO SPEND! That opens the door for an "unlimited" class which in less than two seasons goes broke. Have 6 vehicles racing at most.

They need MORE rules if anything. SIMPLE rules. Consistently enforced body rules. Nobody seems to whine about rolling across the scales? Shocks? Get rid of reservoir quad adjustable shocks. Pick a Monroe Magnum that works. NO MODS ALLOWED! Get rid of coilovers. No 4-links. No aluminum suspension components. Either 3-link with big coils or leaf springs. Big coils on front. Weight jacks. Roll the whole industry back 50 years.

Will the people building parts just jack the prices up? Probably.

Yuck - no thanks. if I wanted to race a nostalgia car or a hobby stock I would, but I have no interest in those.

[ZERO25]

I learned a long time ago......more rules = more $$$!

[Highside Hustler25]

I was gonna say this...lol. Hoffmans along with several other modifieds are just as twisted as before. He's definitely doing something different suspension wise because his cars attitude is very different than even other elites on track. More than once, this year, I've seen him packing the LF while no one else is
Now you're getting warmer. Closer than most.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I was gonna say this...lol. Hoffmans along with several other modifieds are just as twisted as before. He's definitely doing something different suspension wise because his cars attitude is very different than even other elites on track. More than once, this year, I've seen him packing the LF while no one else is.Anyway, every rule sounds great and easy when you're sitting in comfy rooms in the winter thinking of ways you're going to save the sport. It becomes a lot less inviting when its 90, dusty, and you're on the road all the time.

Funny thing is, we never needed a new rule. Bob Memmer saved it decades ago.

Hoffman's car has no choice but to wheelie with all the droop it has.