Old picture of #28 Jimmy Mars early in his career ---------------- Thought I'd share.

[HoosierDirtFan]

A salute to Jimmy and his career.

#28 Jimmy Mars early in his career.
Jimmy decided to retire and hang it up a few months ago.
He put modified racer Dustin Sorenson in his car.

This was my favorite style of dirt late models. Mid 1980's thru the early 1990's.


https://i.imgur.com/vIiefgj.jpg

[Snake X3]

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

[Raceready]

A salute to Jimmy and his career.#28 Jimmy Mars early in his career.Jimmy decided to retire and hang it up a few months ago.He put modified racer Dustin Sorenson in his car.This was my favorite style of dirt late models. Mid 1980's thru the early 1990's. https://i.imgur.com/vIiefgj.jpgThat is the era when DLM racing was at its best.

[ride height]

The golden era of this sport for sure. Didn’t k ow how good we had it back then. Lots of good memories going to the races back then.

[lokwaidid]

those were the best years. it's a shame the idiots who run the series and build the chassis's can't see that racing was better then.

[Patansplant]

So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?

[EvelB7]

So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?Yes, tube frames (honestly not that much different from todays). Could have been a variety of suspension-four link, watts link, cantilever, leaf, mono-leaf, three link.... four link seems to have won out.....

[over4T]

Yep, That was my favorite era for the Late Models too. Maybe because that's primarily when we ran them. They were in a transitioning phase from stock front clips and rear suspension was all over the place.
Larry Shaw was one of the first with using Ford front spring buckets on otherwise fabbed front ends to beat the stock stub rules that prevailed out west. We beat the rule with a Chrysler K member and torsion bar front end and the rest was tube. Eventually the K member front was outlawed and put a Cutlass clip on it. Used Ford Fairmont/Mercury Zephyr rack& pinion steering, $15 at the Pick 'n Pull, on our home built car. Ran stack leaf rear and gradually went to coilover/monoleaf. About the time we finally got the car really competitive the class almost overnight died off in the early '90s.
It was also the time when the home builders started getting left behind by the big pro chassis builders. Great time to be a racer/builder and super bucks weren't necessary to have a ton of fun.

[Raceready]

So, were those tube frames? Also what was the suspension? Leaf spring? Coil overs?I think it was around 1995 or 96 when some of the chassis builders started replacing the regular box shaped rails used for the main frame with all round tubing. It might have been GRT that pioneered the concept.

[Patansplant]

Awesome, I love hearing some of these used to be stories.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yes, tube frames (honestly not that much different from todays). Could have been a variety of suspension-four link, watts link, cantilever, leaf, mono-leaf, three link.... four link seems to have won out.....

4 links were around in the mid 80s, died out, and then came back in the mid 90s. They didn't really become the dominant choice until the early to mid 00s.

[EvelB7]

I think it was around 1995 or 96 when some of the chassis builders started replacing the regular box shaped rails used for the main frame with all round tubing. It might have been GRT that pioneered the concept.Round tube cars have been around since the early 80's, some Bullitt cars from that era where round tube. Most people thought the square tube was stronger, but others followed over the years (went from 2x3 rails to 2x2 rails, then on to round).

[EvelB7]

4 links were around in the mid 80s, died out, and then came back in the mid 90s. They didn't really become the dominant choice until the early to mid 00s.The midwest (Iowa) had a lot of four link stuff from the 80's on. Larry Shaw really popularized it, I moved south with a Shaw car in the early 90's. When I switched to Warrior I got one of their first four link cars (probably around '94, they wanted me to run mono leaf); I know Skip Arp got one at that time as well. I would say more than half of the cars in the Carolinas where four links by the end of the 90's.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The midwest (Iowa) had a lot of four link stuff from the 80's on. Larry Shaw really popularized it, I moved south with a Shaw car in the early 90's. When I switched to Warrior I got one of their first four link cars (probably around '94, they wanted me to run mono leaf); I know Skip Arp got one at that time as well. I would say more than half of the cars in the Carolinas where four links by the end of the 90's.

The only builder in my neck of the woods, that built them in the 80s was Swartz, and he went back to mono leaf. There were virtually no 4 links at Florence, Brownstown, or Southern Ohio in the early 90s.

[EvelB7]

The only builder in my neck of the woods, that built them in the 80s was Swartz, and he went back to mono leaf. There were virtually no 4 links at Florence, Brownstown, or Southern Ohio in the early 90s.Warrior really wanted me to go with a mono leaf, I wanted to stay with the four link. The coilovers where in front on both sides (on the birdcage) and the panhard bar went from the left side of the rear end to the right side frame mount (can't remember when the panhard moved to left). GRT was big on the four link as well, I believe they implemented the 'coil over behind' on the left rear first (before that we would clamp the left rear on the axle tube versus the birdcage to promote bite).

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Warrior really wanted me to go with a mono leaf, I wanted to stay with the four link. The coilovers where in front on both sides (on the birdcage) and the panhard bar went from the left side of the rear end to the right side frame mount (can't remember when the panhard moved to left). GRT was big on the four link as well, I believe they implemented the 'coil over behind' on the left rear first (before that we would clamp the left rear on the axle tube versus the birdcage to promote bite).

Skip Arp did the lr behind first. He was a GRT driver. By the winter, I think 98?, all new 4 links were built that way. The digressive nature made the cars hike up easier and go forward, but slowing down for the corner was a problem for years to come. That kept swing arm cars competitive for several more years. People still think there is some magic to the actual location of the coilover, but it's just wheel rate that made it work. We had a zink, with vastly different top and bottom bar lengths, but similar motion ratio, that worked exactly the same, back in those days.

[Patansplant]

If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If I could ask, what is wheel rate and what is zink?

Wheel rate means force to move the tire with respect to the chassis a certain distance, instead of just looking at the spring rate.

Z link is like a swing arm, but coilover mounted on the birdcage. Typically, bottom bar goes forward from rear end, and top bar goes backwards from rear end, instead of both bars forward, like a 4 link.

[EvelB7]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the right rear coil over phase?

[EvelB7]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

My first car was a TCB with cantilever rear suspension (1986); in '87 went to a underslung Rayburn on a z-link. Never really got the TCB to go in the slick, Rayburn was a much better car until I destroyed it. Looking a wheel rates, the cantilever was a great idea, really allowed for fine tuning with the spring combinations and mounting points.Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

Yes. I ran the double rr some.

[over4T]

EvelB7, Was your TCB one of the ones with the high mounted transverse leaf spring on the front end? Mark Welsh, one of the West's really talented drivers of that era, had one and said the same thing, that he struggled in the slick with it. Fortunately most of the tracks out here then were on the heavy side and he killed them for a couple of years with his Buggy. Very innovative cars.

[EvelB7]

EvelB7, Was your TCB one of the ones with the high mounted transverse leaf spring on the front end? Mark Welsh, one of the West's really talented drivers of that era, had one and said the same thing, that he struggled in the slick with it. Fortunately most of the tracks out here then were on the heavy side and he killed them for a couple of years with his Buggy. Very innovative cars.No, mine was a conventional strut front end. It did have the bolt on clip-NASCAR thinks they invented it but old Gary Oliver beat them by almost 40 years! Car was very good in the wet, but the Iowa tracks we raced at didn't stay hooked up for long so it struggled come feature time. Always felt the thing was just to stiff and had way to narrow of a tuning range. Funny thing is I grew up not far from Tri City Buggy; when I moved south I was not far from where Gary moved and changed name to Tri County Buggy. He quit focusing on the dirt and did more with pavement in his mid and late years.

[billetbirdcage]

Crazy all the combos we have seen over the years, remember the double right rear coil over phase?

Hard for me to remember the exact amount but we won 5 or 6 MLRA races with the double RR and think one of them was the precursor to the silver dollar nationals when it was the "alphabet soup race" with MLRA, WDRL, NCRA, MARS, and ETC where it typically had 60 to 75 cars

[Henry Every]

The first car I ever worked on in 86' was a Frank McClendon creation(Custom Chassis) with reverse canti-lever, underslung both front and rear(like a sprint car) with 32" equal spaced frame rails, 2x2. We then tried one of his 3 link designs with a 34" spaced rails.

[jog49]

Ah, Skip Arp! Haven't heard his name in a long time. Great guy!