Limited slip rear

[ZERO25]

A manufacturer recently told me, rear stagger is costing you 20hp! Can that even be measured or is he full of crap?

[fastford]

I can believe this , we ran a black gold torsion unit years ago that worked well , we ran no stagger with it ....

[Lizardracing]

Power loss could be calculated by torque needed to overcome the scrub, not HP unless your trying to equate that to loss over time. Here's the rub. Stagger is used to compensate for the distance the inside and outside tire travel in an arc so ideally, stagger would net zero power loss.
If the car handles better and goes faster even with the power loss from tire scrub than that outweighs everything else and therefor advertising "save 20hp with my product" may be technically true, in realty, it bull sh....

[fastford]

these cars to day are way over powered to worry about 20 hp , but a solid rear with 6 inches of stagger going in a strait line could easily cost 20 hp at the fly wheel , could probably be proved fairly easy on a chassis dyno , matter of fact , I think its been done , but like said , stagger is for turning left so none of it matters .....

[Mopar DLM]

Is the stagger really costing power or down the straightaway is it causing the tire with the least grip to slip and it is actually costing you forward bite? Could the cars be driven straighter with less rear steer if we had less stagger?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Is the stagger really costing power or down the straightaway is it causing the tire with the least grip to slip and it is actually costing you forward bite? Could the cars be driven straighter with less rear steer if we had less stagger?

It's both.

[crownman25]

ole lizard and that pank rear end grease.....allllll those next day air billls.........

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

ole lizard and that pank rear end grease.....allllll those next day air billls.........

I think you are saying they broke all the time? That's true

[crownman25]

3 to keep 1 goin......

[Henry Every]

I imagine what you might gain in HP down the straight you might give back on exit accel in rotating mass inside the rear. So the one may cancel the other. Not to mention the addition of mechanical complexity increases the chance of failure, as pointed out by another poster. Now if you are down on power, say running an older style engine you may gain some corner speed which carries out onto the straight and with less force acting on the "unit" it may live longer and prove beneficial. Won't know until you try, but I doubt its the missing piece of the puzzle for anyone running in the top tier of the sport, but it might help a mid-pack runner take advantage under slick conditions, where max HP is a detriment. Like another poster stated, todays cars are massively over powered and rarely have the opportunity to take full advantage. JMO

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I imagine what you might gain in HP down the straight you might give back on exit accel in rotating mass inside the rear. So the one may cancel the other. Not to mention the addition of mechanical complexity increases the chance of failure, as pointed out by another poster. Now if you are down on power, say running an older style engine you may gain some corner speed which carries out onto the straight and with less force acting on the "unit" it may live longer and prove beneficial. Won't know until you try, but I doubt its the missing piece of the puzzle for anyone running in the top tier of the sport, but it might help a mid-pack runner take advantage under slick conditions, where max HP is a detriment. Like another poster stated, todays cars are massively over powered and rarely have the opportunity to take full advantage. JMO

We had a lot of luck with a massively outdated car in the mid 90s that had a Detroit locker in a 9" Ford with drum brakes! Lol

[ZERO25]

This man and his company is well known in the Cup world. He knows what he's talking about and has the data to prove it. His rearends and transmissions are meticulously well built out of billet steel on a cnc machine, and yes, very pricey. I bit the bullet and gave him a down payment to get started on ours. Ill let you know how it goes beginning next year.

[Burke1118]

This man and his company is well known in the Cup world. He knows what he's talking about and has the data to prove it. His rearends and transmissions are meticulously well built out of billet steel on a cnc machine, and yes, very pricey. I bit the bullet and gave him a down payment to get started on ours. Ill let you know how it goes beginning next year.Please share some of this data

[ZERO25]

Youll have to spend the money, just like I did!

Hint......my down payment was $4500! Not just for the limited slip but a couple other parts of his package for crate cars!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Youll have to spend the money, just like I did!

Hint......my down payment was $4500! Not just for the limited slip but a couple other parts of his package for crate cars!

I'm sorry for your loss.

[ZERO25]

Im sorry for yours!

[Burke1118]

I'm sorry for your loss.Racing is a perfect harmony of snake oil salesmen who promise speed with gimmicks,And idiots who can’t think for themselves who are willing to give them all of their hard earned money. Anybody know which rearend has the most torque vectoring?
A. Gleason
B. Spool
C. Detroit locker
D. Tru-trac

[ZERO25]

I bought an E!

Idiots are ones who dont think other forms of racing have technology to offer!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I bought an E!

Idiots are ones who dont think other forms of racing have technology to offer!

Of course there are things that transfer. A lot, actually. The key is understanding why or why not, that a particular piece or idea may or may not carry over. I'd never pay to buy a product data to prove the product worked. If you can't explain why it's better, with solid science, I'm not interested. But, in dirt late model racing, guys buy 3 sets of shocks a year, because there's magic in each set.

They buy ridiculously expensive axles because they have magic "wind up" that has no negative consequences when it "unwinds".

[ZERO25]

I was already buying a new transmission anyway, but talking to Johnny and his limited slip rear option , i knew it was the right choice. This is for a crate car, so all of the parts are extremely light. He builds every part in house with his cnc equipment. He's been in business for a longgg time, and has a who's who list of cup and busch customers!

Fyi......he rebuilds any brand of racing transmission and rearend. He said without a doubt, Brinn is the best design and build!

[Burke1118]

Of course there are things that transfer. A lot, actually. The key is understanding why or why not, that a particular piece or idea may or may not carry over. I'd never pay to buy a product data to prove the product worked. If you can't explain why it's better, with solid science, I'm not interested. But, in dirt late model racing, guys buy 3 sets of shocks a year, because there's magic in each set.They buy ridiculously expensive axles because they have magic "wind up" that has no negative consequences when it "unwinds".I’ve got a new set that pushes all 4 tires in the ground harder! My friend who works at NASA revalved them! Said he used technology from the international space station in them!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Back when Penske was the sticker you needed on the side of the body, I heard you could get as much traction as you were willing to pay for.

[fastford]

I was already buying a new transmission anyway, but talking to Johnny and his limited slip rear option , i knew it was the right choice. This is for a crate car, so all of the parts are extremely light. He builds every part in house with his cnc equipment. He's been in business for a longgg time, and has a who's who list of cup and busch customers!

Fyi......he rebuilds any brand of racing transmission and rearend. He said without a doubt, Brinn is the best design and build!

and they say the reason crate cars was invented was to keep cost down , oh well ......

[95shaw]

It's called gravity.

Everything that pushes the tires into the ground is an effect of gravity.

Shocks only attempt to control the speed which gravity effects the tire contact patch.

Jmho

[fastford]

I suppose aero would enhance that gravity .....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Aero and gravity are completely separate forces on the chassis.

In the automotive world, shocks are intended to slow the displacement at the spring to avoid large oscillations.

On a dirt late model, the shocks are often stiff way beyond this point. They are used to manipulate natural ride height during acceleration, natural ride height after a fat guy sits on the rear bumper, position of the rr wheel after a tech man jacks up the car and pulls out his harbor freight tape measure, and other odd uses that go on and on. Every one of those odd uses could be achieved more effectively by other means, but it's harder for people to make money if they aren't selling the latest shiny shock.

[fastford]

I was being a little sarcastic MBR , 95 shaw said " every thing that pushes the tires into the ground is an effect of gravity " I figured with your disposition on aero and the outlandish body's that create it , you would appreciate my statement ....lol...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I was being a little sarcastic MBR , 95 shaw said " every thing that pushes the tires into the ground is an effect of gravity " I figured with your disposition on aero and the outlandish body's that create it , you would appreciate my statement ....lol...

Yes. I do appreciate you were having a little fun.

[ZERO25]

I was guaranteed I could run with the supers at Volusia with a 602! Was I lied to?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I was guaranteed I could run with the supers at Volusia with a 602! Was I lied to?

I don't think you need an answer to that question.