It's criminal

[84wedge]

How RTJ can have a 400 plus points lead, win over half a million on tour and probably won't win the championship due to the DTWC thing at Eldora. If he doesn't cross the line ahead of others, Lucas Oil brass has to present a far inferior car and driver as somehow representing the best of the greatest LM series in the world.

[Highside Hustler25]

In my eyes, he's already won the Lucas title. The finally at Eldora is just another race. Lucas should be embarrassed going the nascar way.
What would really be a joke and a total mockery of the sport is if Overton would win. 870 points back and hasn't won a race other than Georgia speedweeks? Lucas is laughable.

[Barbecueboy]

He probably laps the field at eldora just for good measure…….

[Pennsboro32]

If RTJ doesn’t win, I hope whoever wins the title says, “nope this is bs” put Ricky’s name on the title.

[Josh Bayko]

He should go WoO racing next year. No stupid playoff format over there and the schedule still lets him run most of the Lucas biggies.

[TerryM]

Winning the regular season is cool, but that doesn’t make you the champion. Not in most sports.

[Josh Bayko]

Racing isn’t most sports. NASCAR and Lucas are the exception, not the rule. Playoff formats are a huge part of the decline of NASCAR, and continuing it in Lucas will lead to steep decline in Lucas, too.

[HoosierDirtFan]

Josh Bayko

Racing isn’t most sports. NASCAR and Lucas are the exception, not the rule. Playoff formats are a huge part of the decline of NASCAR, and continuing it in Lucas will lead to steep decline in Lucas, too.



It wouldn't surprise me to see some of the current Lucas drivers this year jump ship to the World of Outlaws next year because they didn't agree with the championship format.

[klemmabyna]

everyone knew what they signed up for. probably why some joined in. argued about this in an old nascar forum. hated it then. hate it now. don't compare jimmie johnson's 7 to petty and earhardt's 7. but don't think race teams don't approach the season differently either. just got to be in the final 4.

being a big Thornton fan i would hate for him to lose the championship under this format. worse yet is the fact the race is at eldora where a couple of racers have proven to have mad skills. but i guess with what they are paying you won't hear complaints voiced out loud despite the grumbling not voiced to the media.

if lucas wanted to add entertainment they should have taken this format to macon for the finale.

JMO

[dirtcrazy4u]

Nascrap racing is terrible, then they give drivers a chance at winning the championship that have no business being there. One can only hope RTJ doesn't have any misfortunes , if he does ? That will be the biggest misjustice and I hope they all jump ship next year. Whomever is making these choices with lucas needs replaced.

[gorj]

Davenport wins 300k at Eldora.

[Patansplant]

So, I absolutly missed something early in the season. Why would RTJ not win the chanpionship? Simple terms please. And choices and decisions within lucas come from pretty high up. If you only knew.

[zyoung25]

If anyone else wins the title other than Ricky, his season will still overshadow it.

Just like last year. There was more talk of Davenport winning 2 mill than there Erb Jr and tmac winning the series titles.

[84wedge]

So, I absolutly missed something early in the season. Why would RTJ not win the chanpionship? Simple terms please. And choices and decisions within lucas come from pretty high up. If you only knew.The championship is decided at the DTWC between the top four.

[Josh Bayko]

So, I absolutly missed something early in the season. Why would RTJ not win the chanpionship? Simple terms please. And choices and decisions within lucas come from pretty high up. If you only knew.

At the DTWC, the points are reset among the top 4 in points and whoever finishes best out of the four wins the title.

It's possible, likely even, that he doesn't have the best finish of the four.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I thought a lot of people were defending this trash when it was announced?

[dirtcrazy4u]

Trash, you got it.

[dewtrucker29]

Not a fan of it in Nascar nor any other form of racing. Some years someone will simply have a far superior year and win a title early. Some years there will be down to the wire championship chases. I wish they would all scrap this "manufactured drama" and just race.

[riddle28]

Davenport wins 300k at Eldora.

oneal. theyll probably make some tweaks to it like bonus points for wins or something eventually but its more exciting than the snoozefest portsmouth was. All the drivers knew the rules and possibilites when they signed on for the tour last winter

[Jking24]

oneal. theyll probably make some tweaks to it like bonus points for wins or something eventually but its more exciting than the snoozefest portsmouth was. All the drivers knew the rules and possibilites when they signed on for the tour last winterYou are correct they all knew. But what they didn't know it's how stellar of a season rtj was gonna have. Weather he knew or not it's really gonna suck to have absolutely dominated the series all year and not have a championship to show for it.

[Tireguy17]

Point fund comparison

2022
Champion $150K, 2nd $75K, 3rd $50K

2023
Champion $200K, 2nd $150K, 3rd $125K, 4th $100K

That's why drivers/teams signed up for the format....Better money overall.

[Patansplant]

Thanks for helping me understand how the championship is decided. RTJ deserves it for sure.

[ImCryn2]

Point fund comparison

2022
Champion $150K, 2nd $75K, 3rd $50K

2023
Champion $200K, 2nd $150K, 3rd $125K, 4th $100K

That's why drivers/teams signed up for the format....Better money overall.

Yep more money makes everything better...... (until it doesn't). That mentality has got this country all the way to the crapper! I hope Ricky does win, but if he doesn't I hope his sponsor (BRS) chokes on the money they threw around. IMO if you have to change a format to have an exciting championship battle, your on track product sucks.

[kidrock]

I can't fault Lucas for trying to make things more exciting for the Championship and they could not foresee that RTJ or anyone else would not dominate like this but, that being said maybe they should have a 4 race points battle instead of 1 race wins it all. I'm not for 1 race wins it all. Keep it the way it was. RTJ deserves this Championship or at least at this point.

[Henry Every]

Why do dirt series keep trying to emulate napcar? This isn't the 80's or the 90's when napcar was strong and growing, this is the time of decline and stupidity. I think, that most organizations that achieve a high level of success believe they can do anything and the public will support it, never giving any thought or circumspect of the past. Then when things fail they blame the public for losing interest in it, never able to admit their own missteps or considering going back. A smart promoter gives the public what it wants, not what they think they should want. Not many true leaders around anymore, no true promoters, just managers without a creative mind or understanding of tradition or history. Their rules today show their ignorance of history and what works and what doesn't, they are blind to their own destruction. Like a coke head that craves only the next high, they ignore the destruction their decisions and actions are creating in their lives and those around them. Its the same with the current leaders of DLM(WoO/Lucas), they see these lightning fast cars that require an engineer, a full time crew and a diagnostic lab on wheels to manage and maintain as a plus, as having achieved the next level(the high). Sadly they ignore the cost, the rot in the roots of the tree and soon when the right storm comes along their tree will topple, collapsing under its own weight. Experience and age are a blessing, it allows you the wider view that younger less experienced people aren't able to see. Wasn't that long ago(to me) that 604 crate was going to save the show, it was going to be the everyman class, but they didn't have the draw that supers have. So then they jacked the purses up to match a super payout and invited those elite teams to come and play in what was billed as the smaller pond. Soon all the tech and dollars and experience flowed into crate 604 and pushed those smaller fish out of the pond supposedly created for them. Now in my area there isn't even a weekly 604 class, they all dropped to 602 or they quit. Whats next? Whats cheaper than 602? How low must we go? My point is, it seems the people at the top are completely out of touch with actual racers and racing? They right rules that make no sense and ignore enforcing the rules that do matter. Bottom line is the cars have too much traction which demands greater horsepower and no amount of gimmicks like, lucky dogs and cute little point reshufflings and whatever other silliness they contrive even glances at the real issues. I'm a big believer in boycotts and the loss of money is the only thing they listen to. The racers have the power, so too the fans, if you don't like something, vote with your dollars and they will listen. JMO

[84wedge]

maybe they should have a 4 race points battle instead of 1 race wins it all.Or even better, every race could be a points battle to get the average of who performs better at the most tracks!

[kidrock]

When Nascar was at it highest they had fans that weren't really race fans but, everyone liked Nascar so, they thought well if everyone else likes it why not. They have weeded out those fans and have pissed some off and have left but, they still have a decent following. I still enjoy Nascar but, I watch more than just the race itself.

[raburke23]

Listen, I am an RTJ fan, but you mean to tell me a guy who had 6 national touring wins in his career before this year all the sudden has 21 wins and the most dominating national touring season of all time? C'mon, we are all smarter than that. RTJ is good, but he doesn't stack up with our sports greats over time. They've obviously stumbled on something that works or something that isn't getting 'caught' because with the talent of today, no one should be winning that many touring races.
And for the record, I like the anticipation and format for crowing the champ.

[84wedge]

I've noticed since that Bloomquist podcast in comments all around that everyone is starting to say RTJ isn't that great and he must be cheating.

[gumby_32d]

Let's run the race first. Then we can go on about RTJ getting screwed. We shouldn't write Davenport the check so soon.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Let's run the race first. Then we can go on about RTJ getting screwed. We shouldn't write Davenport the check so soon.

It shouldn't even be a point of discussion. The result doesn't fix it.

[84wedge]

What was wrong with the points championship being the way it was? Why was this new rule put in place at the same time they switch the DTWC to a track only a small handful of people can win at?

[klemmabyna]

It shouldn't even be a point of discussion. The result doesn't fix it.

Thornton is my Lucas champion regardless of who wins this format. The bad part is someone else may get the champion's check.

[Raceready]

[QUOTE=84wedge;2469690]I've noticed since that Bloomquist podcast in comments all around that everyone is starting to say RTJ isn't that great and he must be cheating.[/

[foxfire2dirtracing]

2 things worth noting:
1. Big River Steel wanted this new championship format
2. Only 1 time in Lucas Oul history has the Championship not been determined before the DTWC.

I am not necessarily a fan of the 1 race deal between the top 4 to determine the Champ- but the one time it wasn’t determined before the last race: it was interesting to watch a race within a race. There were 3 drivers who had a mathematical chance and as terrible as Portsmouth 100 lapped are- the show was interesting.
Again- a race within a race.
Lucas Director said if it doesn’t work- they can revert or fine tune. Like posted above -I don’t think they expected anyone would completely dominate like RTJ has.
As for myself I am very much looking forward to the DTWC.

Henry Every- post #25: Very good post and some very good thoughts you posted. Thank you!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Thornton is my Lucas champion regardless of who wins this format. The bad part is someone else may get the champion's check.

Jeff Gordon has 7 championship by my count too, but nobody cares.

[nikrcos]

The situation with RTJ is truly perplexing, especially considering the massive points lead and tour winnings. The DTWC twist at Eldora adds an element of uncertainty, and if he doesn't emerge victorious, it could leave the Lucas Oil brass with the challenging task of portraying a seemingly inferior car and driver as the pinnacle of the world's greatest LM series. It's akin to a high-stakes gamble at the Black Diamond Casino Mobile Login (https://roryhyde.com/).

[ImCryn2]

Ricky outperformed the competition all year, he's the champion. Everyone started the year with zero points and he has whooped them. He has earned the point lead he has and if he locks it up with 10 races left, the competition needs to step up. Taking away what he has earned and giving it to others is welfare. No other way to put it.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

Is Lucas trying to screw Ricky because bloomer thinks he's cheating even tho they don't know how?

[TS FAN]

It is a show. Never forget that. A SHOW!!!! Add some drama. They all knew the format when they decided to follow the series.

Sports has playoffs to determine the champion for that year. That is the way it is. So complaining is not going to change anything. If the drivers revolt, then it would matter. If they don't then it is what it is.

[TS FAN]

Point fund comparison

2022
Champion $150K, 2nd $75K, 3rd $50K

2023
Champion $200K, 2nd $150K, 3rd $125K, 4th $100K

That's why drivers/teams signed up for the format....Better money overall.


Tire guy, you are right on the mark!!!

[ImCryn2]

Tire guy, you are right on the mark!!!

These guys have a stable of $100,000 race cars and half million dollar haulers...... these point funds are laughable in comparison.

[TS FAN]

They also have sponsors.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

They also have sponsors.

And or family money and or sugar daddy

[foxfire2dirtracing]

My take:
Lucas Oul/Bid River Steel and all the other series sponsors have boosted the points money considerably. Trying to make the season finally at the DTWC more interesting to the fans and teams alike. As I said in a previous post “ A race within a race.”
All 14 teams/drivers who have perfect attendance this year (as of now) knew the format since racing started at Golden Isles and they have chosen to follow the tour all season leading up to the DTWC.

I doubt that any of the complainers on this forum has invested a dime on the points fund or even sponsorship for one of these 14 teams.
Yes RTJ has had a dominant year- hopefully he can capture the points title as well to top it off. If not- he’s still had a great year and he knew the format from the start!
So is it really criminal to try and enhance the excitement of the final race and the DTWC?
My opio ion is no- but I respect everyone’s opio ion as well.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yes, artificial excitement is criminal. It doesn't matter if you bought it. It still distorts the history of the sport.

This thinking is exactly why the rulebook is so screwed up. It has been revised the last 8 years based on commercial availability. (Everything is for sale)

If a nose or roof is available, it's legal.

Rumley device wasn't for sale, so it wasn't allowed to remain legal.

Air shocks are legal because a chassis manufacturer had hundreds of thousands of dollars of inventory on the shelf.

[TS FAN]

Every sport has playoffs. The best team doesn't always win. We are in that era. I am old but not set in my ways. I have no problem with making things more entertaining for the fans. What on earth is wrong with that?


History being messed up? History is always messed up then. Four drivers going for the prize is added entertainment.

[ImCryn2]

Every sport has playoffs. The best team doesn't always win. We are in that era. I am old but not set in my ways. I have no problem with making things more entertaining for the fans. What on earth is wrong with that?


History being messed up? History is always messed up then. Four drivers going for the prize is added entertainment.

What's wrong with that??? Taking away what Ricky has earned (points) and giving them to others so they can all be even with only one race to settle the championship is liberal BS. The others want to be closer in points? EARN IT!!!

[Raceready]

What's wrong with that??? Taking away what Ricky has earned (points) and giving them to others so they can all be even with only one race to settle the championship is liberal BS. The others want to be closer in points? EARN IT!!!This sounds like a step closer to the WOKE era ! ! Hope it works out better for Lucas than it did for Butt Lite ! !

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Denny Hamlin spoke to this very thing on his podcast for Nascar's playoffs. When it comes down to 1 track, the drivers who excel at that track are usually going to win. His solution, and I think a fair middle ground, if you just HAVE to have a playoff is to have it be a round just like the others. Make it 3 races. They want to compare it to other sports. Well you don't play 7 games in the playoffs and 1 in the World Series. You don't play 1 Superbowl and 3 games in the Conference Championship. The format essentially stays the same in the playoffs for all sports (and I know some have a different best of formula depending on the round). Why not have 2 seasons. Run half the races, and award a champion in that half, then reset and run a second season. Crown another champ. Then if you want, have the DTWC where you take the top 2 or 3 from each season, (more if you have the same guys in the top in both) and let those guys run a winner take all super championship type deal.

[jog49]

What was ever wrong with the accumulation of points over the entire season? Has always seemed that driver should be the champion, regardless of the car type or the racing surface.

[Josh Bayko]

If the champ was decided on one race, it should be at a track that none of them have ever turned a lap on. Some track that is a modified or sprint track that doesn’t ever have late model specials. That way nobody has any advantage.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

What was ever wrong with the accumulation of points over the entire season? Has always seemed that driver should be the champion, regardless of the car type or the racing surface.

What was wrong is, as one poster stated, it didn't include liberal bullsht.

[Raceready]

What was wrong is, as one poster stated, it didn't include liberal bullsht.As usual, You are CORRECT as CORRECT can be ! !

[84wedge]

The others want to be closer in points? EARN IT!!!That's the answer

[Raceready]

That's the answerThere it is PURE and SIMPLE ! !

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

Pure is the driven snow... .

[Drop Shock]

That first lap slider from a few car lengths back last night was criminal too

[Barbecueboy]

What's wrong with that??? Taking away what Ricky has earned (points) and giving them to others so they can all be even with only one race to settle the championship is liberal BS. The others want to be closer in points? EARN IT!!!

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
We don’t agree on much but I’m 100% on board with you here.

[fryefan]

What's wrong with that??? Taking away what Ricky has earned (points) and giving them to others so they can all be even with only one race to settle the championship is liberal BS. The others want to be closer in points? EARN IT!!!

While the playoff deal sucks, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics.

[Barbecueboy]

Neither does being liberal or not…..that’s learned long before politics come into the equation.

I hate the idea this year because rtj has been so dominant but to be fair had it not been a points runaway deal it would have made it more palatable for the traditionalists and old timers like myself.
The race will be very cool, I hope it plays out like everyone wants…..promoters,fans,racers and teams.

[Raceready]

Lets hope that somehow, some way that Ricky doesn't get corned out of the Championship. . .

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Lets hope that somehow, some way that Ricky doesn't get corned out of the Championship. . .

I'm with you on this. Well deserved to be champ this yr.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Another problem with racing playoffs is that it is nothing like the playoffs that they want to say they are trying to be like. Traditionally in sports, playoffs come from DIFFERENT divisions, leagues, etc. With baseball, up until interleague play you had teams play in the world series who'd never faced each other. The idea was taking the best teams from 2 different sides of the sport and playing down in an elimination format until you had the 2 'best' and they played each other to determine the overall best. In racing, they just take the same guys who've competed in the exact same events all year, and re-ordered them, and handicapped them in different ways, and said, go out and do the same thing now, the same way you've done all year, but this time, we tilt the playing field how we want, and the guy who wins, we're going to call you the champion.

[TS FAN]

This does not have anything to do with politics. Correct!!

I would be for expanding the playoffs or letting the leader in season long points win it. Or let leaders in points have more favorable position in a playoffs. My point of view is what the Series decides and drivers accept should be acceptable to fans. Once again it is a SHOW

As far as Woke or liberal on this matter, it is nothing but a fall back position when you can make a point. it is stupid, frankly. Anyone that follows my posting on here knows I am about as conservative as it gets when it come to political things. It has nothing to do with this situation.

[TS FAN]

Another problem with racing playoffs is that it is nothing like the playoffs that they want to say they are trying to be like. Traditionally in sports, playoffs come from DIFFERENT divisions, leagues, etc. With baseball, up until interleague play you had teams play in the world series who'd never faced each other. The idea was taking the best teams from 2 different sides of the sport and playing down in an elimination format until you had the 2 'best' and they played each other to determine the overall best. In racing, they just take the same guys who've competed in the exact same events all year, and re-ordered them, and handicapped them in different ways, and said, go out and do the same thing now, the same way you've done all year, but this time, we tilt the playing field how we want, and the guy who wins, we're going to call you the champion.

You make an excellent post on the matter.

[jasjenh]

If you want a real national champion why doesnt woo and lucas crown their regional champions and then have a 7 race playoff with the top 10 in each series points. That would be a REAL national champion.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

This does not have anything to do with politics. Correct!!

I would be for expanding the playoffs or letting the leader in season long points win it. Or let leaders in points have more favorable position in a playoffs. My point of view is what the Series decides and drivers accept should be acceptable to fans. Once again it is a SHOW

As far as Woke or liberal on this matter, it is nothing but a fall back position when you can make a point. it is stupid, frankly. Anyone that follows my posting on here knows I am about as conservative as it gets when it come to political things. It has nothing to do with this situation.

Like you said, this is about a SHOW. It's not politics, and unfortunately, due to whatever reason, it's not about competition anymore either. It's just like NASCAR's stages, and SRX's 'fun flag'. The promoters don't care how much you spend on innovation and hiring the best people, or best drivers, they want a show. I'd say in another 10 years, NASCAR will have a mandatory caution with 10 laps to go, just to make sure we have a close finish. I get it. They are in the business of eyeballs. You don't get as many eyeballs when races are won by 10 seconds, and the outcome is not in question. This is in part due to the reliability of the cars these days, the fact that they are all about the same, and factors like that. When I was a kid, in the 80s you could still watch a race, and have a leader blow an engine with a 20 second lead and change everything. Now, it's pretty much only cautions that cause these big changes. When a major Racing Series artificially manipulates the season so well that the whole thing comes down to who gets off pit road first on the last caution of the season....racing as a true competition is gone.

[TS FAN]

I am a big Nascar fan too. Mainly because of so many drivers in the series I like. I do in fact hate the late race cautions, though. Not sure what can be done about that.

This is how Wm Bryon has won most of his races and how Larson has lost them for example. I do not like that, but it is what it is as they say.

[TS FAN]

If you want a real national champion why doesnt woo and lucas crown their regional champions and then have a 7 race playoff with the top 10 in each series points. That would be a REAL national champion.


Now there is an interesting idea. Have some kind of playoff for at National champion between the two series.

[84wedge]

Now there is an interesting idea. Have some kind of playoff for at National champion between the two series.If both series were tallying points the same way and had the same amount of races per season, it would be an amazing conclusion.

[ZERO25]

These guys have a stable of $100,000 race cars and half million dollar haulers...... these point funds are laughable in comparison.

Yes but most teams spend 3-400k for their yearly racing expenses (not counting equipment and toters), so 1 race could fund next years racing!