84% of Lucas Oil races were won from the first two rows

[84wedge]

80% of Lucas Oil races were won by Longhorn chassis. 18% of Lucas Oil races were won by Rocket Chassis with the house car winning 55% of those.

[klemmabyna]

I’d be more interested in those stats if you give me WoO and Lucas after removing pierce and rtj. Those two seem to be able to pass.

[BillV99]

80% of Lucas Oil races were won by Longhorn chassis. 18% of Lucas Oil races were won by Rocket Chassis with the house car winning 55% of those.

I have it as 61% won from the front row for Lucas Oil in 2023, 44% for the Outlaws

Lucas Oil Stats...
http://sprintcarratings.com/SeriesStats.aspx?Series=LOLM

World of Outlaw LM Stats...
http://sprintcarratings.com/SeriesStats.aspx?Series=WoOLM

[84wedge]

Well, if they want to tweak rules and make things more exciting for the viewer, maybe they can start looking at the fact there's almost no passing rather than giving someone 1000 points behind the opportunity to be champion.

[84wedge]

I have it as 61% won from the front row for Lucas Oil in 2023, 47% for the OutlawsLucas Oil Stats...http://sprintcarratings.com/SeriesStats.aspx?Series=LOLMWorld of Outlaw LM Stats...http://sprintcarratings.com/SeriesStats.aspx?Series=WoOLMThanks for this, I didn't know it existed. Davenport has 11 wins this year and only one starting outside the first two rows. O'Neil has 13 wins and only 2 starting outside the first two rows.

[pierceFAN]

in bobbys 12 WoO wins 5 were from the front row

[84wedge]

It seems like the first two rows are pretty much the front row, especially if you're inside row two. That car almost always goes low on the start and is in second by the time they get to the line and usually situated for a slider for the lead. Who says you can't win a race in the first corner anymore?

[pierceFAN]

It seems like the first two rows are pretty much the front row, especially if you're inside row two. That car almost always goes low on the start and is in second buy the time they get to the line, and usually situated for a slider for the lead. Who says you can't win a race in the first corner anymore?

clean air is king...cars are aero dominate

[Rajflyboy]

This is awful but is expected

[TS FAN]

The North South plan was much better in my opinion. Or at least have a redraw from the top 8. Or at least the top six. I am surprised that only 61 percent were won from the first row. Of course RTJ often starts further back, and then passes showing it can be done. Make the racing more exciting. N/S was a great race.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The North South plan was much better in my opinion. Or at least have a redraw from the top 8. Or at least the top six. I am surprised that only 61 percent were won from the first row. Of course RTJ often starts further back, and then passes showing it can be done. Make the racing more exciting. N/S was a great race.

Yes, if you are a half second or 6 tenths better than the field, you can pass. That's a high bar.

[84wedge]

78% of WoO races were won from the first two rows.

[84wedge]

Thanks to user BillV99 and his stat page (linked above on post 3), all but 4 of Lucas Oils 51 races were won from the first 4 rows and all but 2 of WoO 36 races were won from the first 4 rows.

[Highside Hustler25]

If the fast qualifiers start up front, then what kind of results do you expect?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If the fast qualifiers start up front, then what kind of results do you expect?

It's different conditions, you'd expect some comers and goers when things change.

[Kipimak]

21 of RTJ’s 25 victories came from starting in the first 2 rows. His other 4 wins he started 6th, 7th, 7th and 8th.

[Highside Hustler25]

Never expected Pierce to have more Lucas wins than Moran, T Mac, and Overton.

[Kipimak]

Pierce’s 3 Lucas wins were from 8th, 10th and 13th.

[Raceready]

Never expected Pierce to have more Lucas wins than Moran, T Mac, and Overton.I believe that it was not any surprise to me! !

[weatherman85]

I'd be interested in seeing some stats like this from the 90s/2000s so we could really compare. While I was just a young boy in the 90s, I sure do remember a lot of races back then also being won from the first 2 rows at my local tracks.

[klemmabyna]

I'd be interested in seeing some stats like this from the 90s/2000s so we could really compare. While I was just a young boy in the 90s, I sure do remember a lot of races back then also being won from the first 2 rows at my local tracks.

I would like to see a comparison as well. My memory was that it may have been even worse with straight up starts based on full field time trials. there is a reason inverts were implemented.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

If the fast qualifiers start up front, then what kind of results do you expect?

I feel like this is especially bad due to the 30, 40, 50 lap features. I wonder how much this changes during 100 lappers. Fuel loads more dramatically changing, tire fall off becoming a bigger factor, etc.

[riddle28]

they should just have a lemans start, maybe that would please some of yall

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

they should just have a lemans start, maybe that would please some of yall

Sounds like another gimmick. We just want to be entertained by good racing.

[Fast Wheels]

The fans have blame in this as long as they continue to buy tickets to this garbage racing.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The fans have blame in this as long as they continue to buy tickets to this garbage racing.

The racers are also to blame, for showing up. But that's slowly correcting...

[Dirt Clod]

Some people may not like USAC, but their method of inverting the top 6 cars every night in the sprint car and midget heat races and features demands elbows up and great racing! You gotta get in the top 4 in your heat race to get your inversion for the feature. No fast qualifiers starting the front row except the Silver Crown.

[fryefan]

80% of Lucas Oil races were won by Longhorn chassis. 18% of Lucas Oil races were won by Rocket Chassis with the house car winning 55% of those.

I am surprised that it is not higher than that. The format sucks.

IMCA weekly format (inverts) and passing point systems provide FAR better racing.

[fryefan]

Some people may not like USAC, but their method of inverting the top 6 cars every night in the sprint car and midget heat races and features demands elbows up and great racing! You gotta get in the top 4 in your heat race to get your inversion for the feature. No fast qualifiers starting the front row except the Silver Crown.

Awesome format that provides much better racing.

[Raceready]

80% of Lucas Oil races were won by Longhorn chassis. 18% of Lucas Oil races were won by Rocket Chassis with the house car winning 55% of those.So one might guess that the theory that it was an off year for Rocket last year because of the number of the bigger races Longhorn won last year hasn't really changed any this season ?

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Some people may not like USAC, but their method of inverting the top 6 cars every night in the sprint car and midget heat races and features demands elbows up and great racing! You gotta get in the top 4 in your heat race to get your inversion for the feature. No fast qualifiers starting the front row except the Silver Crown.

This is a good idea, and would hopefully solve 2 other issues. Drivers would want cars that could race better in traffic, so we might finally see some aero changes, and they'd also want tracks that you could pass on, so maybe we'd see better track prep too.

[Josh Bayko]

Qualifying is everything in Lucas races. They should tweak the straight up format a bit. Pull a pill for heats, then qualify only against the guys in your drawn heat. Run the program straight up from there.

[Tireguy17]

Straight up from time trials and 8 lap heat races are why we have the kind of results posted in this thread.

The USMTS series divides the field into groups, Those groups time trial together, invert the fastest 6, and 10 lap heat race together with passing points. I like their system although the 6 invert is probably too many as they can struggle to make it directly into the A, a 4 invert would be better.

[drich24]

I went back and looked at the 2009 Lucas oil races from the articles posted on the Lucas oil website. They don’t have an article for the Knoxville nationals however, with the 40 races they have on there, 70% of the races were won from the first two rows.

[over4T]

Our touring group up here in NorCal uses a modified USAC system. The top 6 or 8 from the heats, depending on car count, all redraw for the main. You may win your heat and you may redraw 1 for the main but it's not likely. Makes for darned good main racing and most everyone likes it except for the fastest guy who redrew 8.

Spectators came to see passing, not follow the leader, and real racers go to pass cars.

[TS FAN]

I go back to what the N/S did which was a lucas race. Same thing Eldora does more or less. Some kind of invert is needed, period. IMO

Fast time, pole of heat win easily, pole of feature. Often game, set, match. Not a good plan. At the very least have a redraw.

[fryefan]

Straight up from time trials and 8 lap heat races are why we have the kind of results posted in this thread.

The USMTS series divides the field into groups, Those groups time trial together, invert the fastest 6, and 10 lap heat race together with passing points. I like their system although the 6 invert is probably too many as they can struggle to make it directly into the A, a 4 invert would be better.

Agreed. This is a much better format than the freight-train formats.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Eliminate timing cars. Give them 2 hot lap sessions, then draw a pill for heat race line ups. Isn't that the way your weekly track used to do it ? Western Pa sure was, and you would see excellent racing. The list of yesterday's hero's that raced 3 and 4 nights a week with full fields always produced good racing. I bet then you would see aero changes, because every last one of them that pulled a bad pill would be screaming.

[MRM]

I guess the only two Lucas races I saw this year were not won from the first 2 rows.

[drich24]

I enjoy the USMTS a lot. However, it is impossible for most people to follow what heck is going on. My Race Pass makes it easier to follow, if you have it and if you have cell service.

Even with all of the inverts and redraws, so far in 2023, the winner has started on the front row 57%, first two rows 73%, and first three rows 80%.

[Highside Hustler25]

Mikey Marlar
Ponderosa Speedway 7/14/2023
Won from the 11th row

[Fast Wheels]

Mikey Marlar
Ponderosa Speedway 7/14/2023
Won from the 11th row

Proving that it’s possible to win from that far back in the series officials are only concerned about licking the drivers by starting races, heads up