DLM economics...

[bonz45]

I read this on Facebook and wondered how the experts on this forum feel about it.
READY, GO!

So following up on last weeks post that seemed to be splash for the racing community, I was asked to detail down a nightly cost to drop the liftgate on these haulers.

Here is a hypothetical to a race night. These are not to my exact team specifications, just a model to show the reality. 40 lap feature, 2 hot laps, 2 time trial, 8 heat. 2 Employees ave 6k total a month. Assume you race 8 times a month (twice a weekend). Assume driver gets 35%. Race pays 10k to win. The cars, motor and hauler are assets. Their purchase is not accounted for in the nightly cost. We add a $300 a night for maintenance to the parts for replacement and service.

Average Diesel Fuel per trip one way: $375.00
Laps on Motor: $13.75 a lap: Average 52 laps for 40 lap feature night = $715.00 a night on the motor
Racing Fuel a night: $100.00
4 Pit Passes = $160.00
Equipment Rotation & Service: $300.00
Tires @ $215 a piece: 6 a night: $1,290.00
Payroll: Random Assigned Value: $350.00 a night at track
Driver Percentage: 35%

$10,000 to win race.
$10000, $6000, $3500, $2800, $2500, $2300, $2200, $2100, $2050, $2000 - $1000 to start

You finish 3rd. $3500 prize money. Assume you hurt nothing.
Lets apply it:
$3,500 x .35 = $1,225 to the driver
52 Laps on engine = $715.00 motor maintenance
6 Tires @ $215 = $1,290
Race Fuel = $100
Equipment Rotation & Service = $300
Diesel Fuel = $400
4 Pit Passes = $160
Employee Payroll = $350
Total Cost to run 3rd to owner: $4,540
Owner lost - $1,040 to run 3rd in a National Touring Event.

When I said that 38 cars came to Atomic, there were two winners, one break even car and 35 losers, you see what I mean with this illustration? So the people who keep saying that the Super Hauler is the problem, or the people who buy new motors and have multiple cars are the problem; I am not even accounting for the purchase of the equipment or any of the necessity expenditures for any of it. If you have a line item sponsor that can help reduce the line items above, that moves the margin in your favor as the owner.

Now the 100 lap races that pay $2000 or $2500 to start and add in qualifying laps, your at minimum 115 laps for the show. That's $1581.25 in laps on the engine for that one race. If you burn up 8 tires instead of 6, then your at $1720 in tires. Race fuel doubles to $200 to run double the laps of a standard show. If its a 2 day show, its now $320 in pit passes. You need fuel to get the hauler home too. Have not paid anyone yet and hope you don't tear anything up.

So I am posing the question again; is this a hobby or a professional sport? What makes sense and what needs adjusted? Is there anything to even adjust? Tracks needs to be profitable to make their business make sense or are they hobbyist as well and they should share in the expectation that losing money should be an expected part of the equation if you are functioning within this industry? Aaahhh: there is a question that creates a conversation we need to be having along with the rest of it. We need tracks. They need to be successful. 100% agree.

Here is my whole take on this: Every part of the industry plays the part in a production of a race show. From the manufacturers, to the broadcasters, to the facilities to the promotion, they are all deemed businesses and have a justifiable reason to make money for their roll in the production. BUT, the actual actors (the race teams) who are the performers of the show, have no position in the argument, are demonized for daring raise the question about the money distribution part of it and are expected to be grateful that anyone allows us the opportunity to lose money to be the actors in the production. So here is the catch 22: how about only 2 cars show up to run the race? Only 2 of them are going to leave making enough to pay to race the next night. Fair? How about on lap 5 of the feature, 19 of the cars go pit side and let the 5 cars in the front duke it out for the top 3 because the guys who finishes 4th - 24th are taking a bath, just depends on how bad the bath is on that given night? Fair? All I ever see is if a car pulls pitside to save their equipment, they get ambushed by everyone for not staying out to run the whole race to be a part of the show. Still seem fair?

I have never heard a single car owner ever say that they expected to profit every night they race. On the flip side, the car owners are starting to question really hard why we are so frowned upon with being the performers in the production where every other part of the production is allowed to have an expectation of making a profit and the team owners cant share in that part of the equation. Just so we are being fair, if there are no performers for the production, there is no production. Next time anyone thinks about bashing a team or car owner for expressing their position in the whole equation, remember if the team owners say screw it and all go away, the whole show is over. Then you can really bash them for their being no show at all! The car owners are not asking for anyone to guarantee us a profit for fielding our teams. We are asking for everyone in the equation to sit down and have a 100% transparent discussion about what makes sense so the performers will want to continue to spend money to keep putting on a show.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

1) he must have a sweet race gas deal
2) where's the woo show up money?
3) he has taken a professional approach to a non professional sport. He knew the potential profit before he jumped in with the big boys. You budget according to the profit/loss prospects, or you definitely are not a good business person. His car is slow and now he has buyers remorse.
4) racing a dirt late model has always been a losing proposition for most of the competitors. We've just went thru a period of time where a lot of people have been willing to go extra crazy on their expenses.

[Josh Bayko]

Sounds like Mr. Martin isn’t going to doing this much longer.

[dirtcrazy4u]

You think the driver making 35% has a good deal, but if you break that down his expenses are costing more than he is making also. It's all about sponsor dollars. Very few make money racing.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

Your pay at the end of the night only lowers the cost of your hobby...

[Hoosier_Dirt]

These guys are wanting to make what was considered a hobby into a job/profession. Wasn't meant to be that way, people over time, just like stated above have been willing to spend extra crazy money. If they really wanna continue to race, why not step down a class that you can afford?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

These guys are wanting to make what was considered a hobby into a job/profession. Wasn't meant to be that way, people over time, just like stated above have been willing to spend extra crazy money. If they really wanna continue to race, why not step down a class that you can afford?

All the racers and people in charge have managed to do over the last 25 years is reduce the number of venues running super late models on a given night and reduce the number of competitors willing to do it. I guess they have also greatly inflated the perceived and actual costs to compete at a competitive level.

It's still a hobby sport. I don't care what you spend. Your only path to profit is domination or sugar daddy support.

[Finnfan25]

It's still a hobby sport. I don't care what you spend. Your only path to profit is domination or sugar daddy support. Add "/sponsor/s" to sugar daddy here and I think this probably sums up every form of motor racing on the planet. I think another important income factor the OP didn't mention was souvenir sales. A lot of drivers/team make some decent bank from their souvenir trailers.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

The HTF boys seem to make a pretty good living at it...

But as one poster has said, it's that sugar daddy equation that makes it happen, most likely.

[Raceready]

Add "/sponsor/s" to sugar daddy here and I think this probably sums up every form of motor racing on the planet. I think another important income factor the OP didn't mention was souvenir sales. A lot of drivers/team make some decent bank from their souvenir trailers.That young Bobby Pierce must bank a ton on sales because his trailer always has the longest line of fans waiting to buy buy buy. . .

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

^ maybe your eye are so affixed upon the dirty little sht's mirch wagon that you can't see other trailers have just as many or more people waiting to buy buy buy?

[Raceready]

^ maybe your eye are so affixed upon the dirty little sht's mirch wagon that you can't see other trailers have just as many or more people waiting to buy buy buy?Thats why ya hardly ever see anyone in line for old " Coconuthead " merch ? ?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The HTF boys seem to make a pretty good living at it...

But as one poster has said, it's that sugar daddy equation that makes it happen, most likely.

HTF are YouTube/Patreon funded.

[Paradox28]

when you are the product..you have to market yourself as such. You don't get to just "show up" and expect money to be pouring in. How many DLM drivers do you really see with a personality, something "extra", something to draw people in? The guys who are winning and up front all the time don't have nearly the trouble. If you aren't one of those guys who is a threat to win at any track you show up to, you gotta market yourself and draw people in..that is..if you want it to be a business and not a hobby.

[Tireguy17]

My 30,000 foot observation…..
Most are making money in this sport (sanctions, tracks, stream providers, chassis builders, part manufacturers and suppliers) EXCEPT the racers. Whether its Nascar, WoO, Lucas or a local racer, the love for the sport has them spending far more than then any fiscally responsible person would. It’s the equivalent to someone driving a brand new Corvette on minimum wage. Thankfully sponsors and merch help offset a portion of costs. What the fix is I don’t know, charging fans more would be the easy way out, but not sure is the best route with streaming options now. The system is indeed broken, its been broken for a long time, and only appears to be getting worse.

I know giving a % is the normal deal drivers get, but considering owners are footing all the money, I don’t see it as smart business. Yes drivers need owners and vice versa to succeed, but these owners need more of the winnings to stay in the sport as well. If a team has a great year and brings in $1M in winnings, does the driver really need to make $350K when he’s not paying the bills?

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

HTF are YouTube/Patreon funded.

In part obviously... The "sugar daddy" plays a bigger part.

[ImCryn2]

These guys are wanting to make what was considered a hobby into a job/profession. Wasn't meant to be that way, people over time, just like stated above have been willing to spend extra crazy money. If they really wanna continue to race, why not step down a class that you can afford?

Alot of folks in the sport wanted corporate money involved and they got it. Greed and arrogance came with it.
The drivers and owners are forced to make it a job/profession to be able to compete, nobody has enough time to run 60+ races a year and make a living outside the sport.

[ImCryn2]

^ maybe your eye are so affixed upon the dirty little sht's mirch wagon that you can't see other trailers have just as many or more people waiting to buy buy buy?

The fact that even you can't open your mouth without speaking of him proves he is a very popular fella. lmfao!!

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

The fact that even you can't open your mouth without speaking of him proves he is a very popular fella. lmfao!!

So wasn't Hitler. laugh out loud...

[MIdlmfan]

HTF are YouTube/Patreon funded.Even the HTF team wouldn’t make a go of it without their sugar daddy he’s the one buying all the equipment

[Hoosier_Dirt]

HTF are YouTube/Patreon funded.

I thought they were funded by the Langenfelder dude out of Maryland? He seems to buy the chassis and motors.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I thought they were funded by the Langenfelder dude out of Maryland? He seems to buy the chassis and motors.

Sure, him too. YouTube got them out of their real jobs, so they could race all the time.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

Langenfelder is the "sugar daddy". Great to see this work for them. Being able to make a living at this is rare, but they have pulled it off. They are a smart bunch of hard working young men. In today's world, that's also rare. Hope this partnership and the YouTube deal carries them through for many years...

[Kromulous]

If you think its bad in SLM Racing, go look into any type of Grand Prix racing, all the way up to Indy 500.

You ever wonder how an Exec of Sony's kid ends up in an Indy Car and then dies? Well its $$, if you got enough you can walk up and buy you a ride. Of course you can do that nowadays on dirt as well.

Most Race Teams in SLM areana are a tax write off for a successful Buisness in another area. Towing and Trucking seem very popular.

[Josh Bayko]

If you think its bad in SLM Racing, go look into any type of Grand Prix racing, all the way up to Indy 500.

You ever wonder how an Exec of Sony's kid ends up in an Indy Car and then dies? Well its $$, if you got enough you can walk up and buy you a ride. Of course you can do that nowadays on dirt as well.

Most Race Teams in SLM areana are a tax write off for a successful Buisness in another area. Towing and Trucking seem very popular.


Endurance racing has rules that actually require amateurs with money in certain classes. LMP3, for instance, is chock full of dentists and lawyers who like cars. LMP2 requires that at least one of the drivers be an amateur. The GT classes in both IMSA and WEC also require one or more amateurs in each car.

[MRM]

My 30,000 foot observation…..
Most are making money in this sport (sanctions, tracks, stream providers, chassis builders, part manufacturers and suppliers) EXCEPT the racers. Whether its Nascar, WoO, Lucas or a local racer, the love for the sport has them spending far more than then any fiscally responsible person would. It’s the equivalent to someone driving a brand new Corvette on minimum wage. Thankfully sponsors and merch help offset a portion of costs. What the fix is I don’t know, charging fans more would be the easy way out, but not sure is the best route with streaming options now. The system is indeed broken, its been broken for a long time, and only appears to be getting worse.

If tracks are making money, why are so many closing? Many do make money off the big shows. But the smaller shows and weekly races are a struggle for most.

[Henry Every]

HTF are YouTube/Patreon funded. Yep, plus a sponsor/benefactor aka sugardaddy. I will say they have done a good job parlaying their tube success into a business outside the tube/patreon stuff to include their own series. To me I see them as only an "ok" reality show/podcast that sells merch and also races. I don't see them as a serious raceteam on the same level as Bloomquist, Moyer, Purvis or any of the other great racers. IMHO at this point they have better equipment than they can legitimately use.

[84wedge]

To me I see them as only an "ok" reality show/podcast that sells merch and also races. IMHO at this point they have better equipment than they can legitimately use.The Dirt Cardashians.

[Tireguy17]

If tracks are making money, why are so many closing? Many do make money off the big shows. But the smaller shows and weekly races are a struggle for most.

In some cases, the land the tracks sit on become too valuable to say no to when someone wants it.

[pierceFAN]

If tracks are making money, why are so many closing? Many do make money off the big shows. But the smaller shows and weekly races are a struggle for most.

most tracks make their money on the concessions...the front gate and back gates pay the bills

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

most tracks make their money on the concessions...the front gate and back gates pay the bills

Man! A fella can learn a lot from you Billy the kid whoops I meant to say pierceFAN. My bad lol!

[Barbecueboy]

most tracks make their money on the concessions...the front gate and back gates pay the bills

There are only a few tracks I know of and have been to where concessions are given the thought ,execution and planning they deserve…..most tracks underperform with that aspect.

I’m sure I’ll get blistered for the comment, and I’m also sure that everyone’s home track has the best hot dog, French fries or bbq sandwich etc.…..but for every great concession experience I’ve had at a track I’ve had 10 others that were barely edible or wouldn’t be ordered ever again.

[jr29]

In some cases, the land the tracks sit on become too valuable to say no to when someone wants it.

It just happened to Devil's Bowl in Texas.

I'm not specifically referring to the facebook post that this is all about, but it always makes me scratch my head when race people, who are overwhelmingly "earn what you get" type conservative people, start bellyaching about their desire to spread the wealth a little more.

[cjsracing]

The Dirt Cardashians.

Winner Winner

[JustAddDirt]

The Dirt Cardashians.

So true. really have no clue what they are doing racing wise, but doing well at marketing and YouTube views.

[Raceready]

The Dirt Cardashians.^ All azz and no brains ? ? ^

[riddle28]

So true. really have no clue what they are doing racing wise, but doing well at marketing and YouTube views.

how many world 100s have you been in?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

how many world 100s have you been in?

He's a perfect 1 made for 1 attempt. Not that doing something in a car is the qualifications for knowing someone doesn't know a subject matter.

I guarantee I could lower their lap times, and I can't drive worth a crap.

[84wedge]

how many world 100s have you been in?The old "lets see you do better". I've never flown a helicopter, but if I saw one in a tree, I could still know the pilot f#cked up

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

The old "lets see you do better". I've never flown a helicopter, but if I saw one in a tree, I could still know the pilot f#cked up

And that would be an assumption on your part. Many things could have put that helicopter in that tree that the pilot had no control over.

[Raceready]

And that would be an assumption on your part. Many things could have put that helicopter in that tree that the pilot had no control over.Maybe that there " VORTEX THEORY " thing that old D.W. was always yappin about ?

[jr29]

And that would be an assumption on your part. Many things could have put that helicopter in that tree that the pilot had no control over.

I'm a truck driver. If you follow me for a day and you see me back into a roll up door, pop a tire by running over a curb, and force a car onto the shoulder during a lane change, I don't think you'd need to be a truck driver to say I'm not a very good one.

With that said, the HTF guys seem to be a good regional team and I don't see how anyone can seriously argue that.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

I drove them there big ole trucks for 30 + years, driver... I know HTF is doing well and I support that. Wtf are you talking about, driiiiver?? L

[ride height]

I dont see how anybody is making money racing a dirt car, but I guess some are some are, but very few. The costs to do this full time has got to be beyond staggering. Sponsors pouring money in a hole because they like to be a part of the racing is the only thing even remotely making a racer a living. It all looks glamorous to us fans but frankly, it’s got to be a hard life. We only see the glory of the minutes of the dirt flying while we’re eating popcorn and watching the races. I can’t imagine the time and money spent to do this 3-5 nights a week for 10 months a year.or whatever they run nowdays.

[MIdlmfan]

Well HTF has a sugar daddy YouTube Patreon and sell a ton of merch which thanks to our friends in China is probably 80% profit but still wrapping it around my head that they are supporting like 4 to 5 families and the racing but their buddy Bo Slay who from all indications is a great guy somebody is dropping big money 1500 tire bill a weekend for starters and never makes much more than to start money

[riddle28]

He's a perfect 1 made for 1 attempt. Not that doing something in a car is the qualifications for knowing someone doesn't know a subject matter.

I guarantee I could lower their lap times, and I can't drive worth a crap.

im sure fresh set of eyes can help any program. I dont get the hate on them other than jealousy i guess. They were barely dabbling in super racing 3 years ago or less maybe. Bruening, bronson have all the resources in the world and hardly get any results

[grt74]

since covid, it has jumped for sure
there are several guys that do great in life but are looking hard at it and going "its just too much anymore"
and they can afford it, thats what everyone needs to worry about

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

im sure fresh set of eyes can help any program. I dont get the hate on them other than jealousy i guess. They were barely dabbling in super racing 3 years ago or less maybe. Bruening, bronson have all the resources in the world and hardly get any results

Bruening and Bronson may not get that many results, but they can run circles around Joiner. They just have more fame than results. That rubs some the wrong way, I guess. I've never really paid much attention to their YouTube stuff. Only really seen it when people showed it to me. Their " we poor" schtick was tiring to me.

[riddle28]

Bruening and Bronson may not get that many results, but they can run circles around Joiner. They just have more fame than results. That rubs some the wrong way, I guess. I've never really paid much attention to their YouTube stuff. Only really seen it when people showed it to me. Their " we poor" schtick was tiring to me.

when is the last time bruening has won any type of race? lol ive never known of it

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

when is the last time bruening has won any type of race? lol ive never known of it

He's not racing a bunch of crate guys from the Southeast. He's racing the best in the country.

[riddle28]

He's not racing a bunch of crate guys from the Southeast. He's racing the best in the country.
ohh ok lol

[grt74]

when is the last time bruening has won any type of race? lol ive never known of it

ill be surprised if he doesn't win some next year, more to be added later

[Raceready]

I drove them there big ole trucks for 30 + years, driver... I know HTF is doing well and I support that. Wtf are you talking about, driiiiver?? LSome gear jammers whine and bitch about anything and everything so now I've an idea why you are so eager to diss on that poor Bobby Pierce young'in for no apparent reason ? ? Embrace the phenom and double clutch your troubles away ! ! Buy a T-shirt or a hoodie to help support the young ace !

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

I don't support dirty drivers. Smile

[Kromulous]

HTF guys maybe a lot of things, whatever, but they are Racing for a living, not many can say that, they should be proud.

One of my good friends is racing for a living on TV, hes not doing well right now, but as i told him your doing it man ! Your out there racing for a living.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

HTF has my support... Good clean team of young men!

[Raceready]

I don't support dirty drivers. SmileEspecially that old Bloomy guy when he ran all over good old EPJ while running a consi of all things ? ?

[smooth32]

There's too dam many good kids out there in the dlm world with good heads on their shoulders for me to even think about supporting a dumbass behind the wheel like bobby. Like he said "you don't like it, eat sht". Smilewhy dont you do everyone a favor and it sht? its obvious you dont like it. Youre the only dumbass you support.

[Raceready]

why dont you do everyone a favor and it sht? its obvious you dont like it. Youre the only dumbass you support.Basically what you might be wanting to say is " Just be Chilly Silly Philly " ? ?

[ftfiowa]

I have no idea. Something about maybe he has a mouth full of it? Idn... Grin
is it awesome sauce?

surehope it yours SS!

[ftfiowa]

Put the crack pipe away for the day and go watch the rest of nascar at Martinsville...

as long as the pipe is full of your awesome sauce!!!!!!!!! yeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssss

[racedad11]

Sorry i`m late to this conversation , so this goes a couple pages back. But I think it`s funny riddle 28 calling out someone for " how many world 100`s have you made" . And the guy he`s talking to has actually made one in maybe his only attempt at it .