The definition of champion has been cheapened

[g_hughes]

internet fact checking services have determined that the 2023 Lucas Oil Late Model series champion is Ricky Thornton Jr, any press release stating otherwise is inaccurate and false. lol

[Raceready]

internet fact checking services have determined that the 2023 lucas oil late model series champion is ricky thornton jr, any press release stating otherwise is inaccurate and false. Lolagreed ! !

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

internet fact checking services have determined that the 2023 Lucas Oil Late Model series champion is Ricky Thornton Jr, any press release stating otherwise is inaccurate and false. lol


Well there you have it folks... It's got to be 100% true and right (not subject to change) if it came for them fact check folks on the interwebs.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

agreed ! !

Shake my head and laugh it right the hell off, rolling across the floor...

Some dam more...

[bleedblue55]

internet fact checking services have determined that the 2023 Lucas Oil Late Model series champion is Ricky Thornton Jr, any press release stating otherwise is inaccurate and false. lol

In your dreams HaHaHaHaHa

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

This is a prime example (on almost every thread today) of the breakdown that happens when things don't go the way a libtard wants them to, even though they knew this is how it would play out at the end... laugh

[xray]

This is a prime example (on almost every thread today) of the breakdown that happens when things don't go the way a libtard wants them to, even though they knew this is how it would play out at the end... laugh


this is a prime example of when a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty idea that everyone said was (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty turns out (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty.

[TS FAN]

Playoffs entertain people, all sports use them. Fans can choose whether or not they want to follow the sport. However bellyaching about the rules is a waste of time and energy.

The bellyaching about Nascar is also boring. People that don't like the rules, simply should not follow that sport either.

BTW, I thought that the race Sunday was quite entertaining. I am pretty sure many fans enjoyed it more than the drivers. The big E. did a great job even being able to pull the race off.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Playoffs entertain people, all sports use them. Fans can choose whether or not they want to follow the sport. However bellyaching about the rules is a waste of time and energy.

The bellyaching about Nascar is also boring. People that don't like the rules, simply should not follow that sport either.

BTW, I thought that the race Sunday was quite entertaining. I am pretty sure many fans enjoyed it more than the drivers. The big E. did a great job even being able to pull the race off.

Racing isn't a stick and ball sport. Playoffs in those sports exist out of necessity. It wasn't invented to produce extra drama.

[84wedge]

Racing isn't a stick and ball sport. Playoffs in those sports exist out of necessity. It wasn't invented to produce extra drama.No it isn't. Racing requires two balls.

[TS FAN]

I don't agree with not being a stick and ball sport. Any sport that has fans attending is there to entertain them. Playoffs entertain them. I am old but not set in my ways. I have been going to races since 1950. Love the sport obviously, have no problem with new formats.

If you have racing series then there should be some drama to cap them off. IMO

[Rollover]

Mark Richards bank account says different about this

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I don't agree with not being a stick and ball sport. Any sport that has fans attending is there to entertain them. Playoffs entertain them. I am old but not set in my ways. I have been going to races since 1950. Love the sport obviously, have no problem with new formats.

If you have racing series then there should be some drama to cap them off. IMO

I'm entertained by a good race. The champion is just recognized at season end for consistently getting the job done. I've never counted points while watching a race.

[84wedge]

Mark Richards bank account says different about thisThe fact there's almost no Rockets left on the two major tours tells a lot too. A few years ago there wasn't a single Longhorn on WoO, now it's just Dennis Erb in a Rocket and look at the year he had.

[Raceready]

The fact there's almost no Rockets left on the two major tours tells a lot too. A few years ago there wasn't a single Longhorn on WoO, now it's just Dennis Erb in a Rocket and look at the year he had.Point well taken and they only seem to win a big one due to unusual circumstances letting them back into a win ? ?

[Pennsboro32]

The fact there's almost no Rockets left on the two major tours tells a lot too. A few years ago there wasn't a single Longhorn on WoO, now it's just Dennis Erb in a Rocket and look at the year he had.


This season?

Ryan Gustin. Chris Madden was in one the majority of the season. Brian Shirley. Bronson the majority.

If you don’t think there won’t be some horns going to rocket this off-season you’re mistaken.

[SLlDlNG SIDEWAYS]

this is a prime example of when a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty idea that everyone said was (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty turns out (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty.

Never said it was a good thing, it wasn't. Nobody had a gun to the heads of those who didn't agree with it, they stayed in it all on their own doing.

[TBSprintFan]

I'm entertained by a good race. The champion is just recognized at season end for consistently getting the job done. I've never counted points while watching a race.

Show us where in the 2023 Lucas Oil Late Model Series rulebook that it says the Champion is recognized at the season end for consistently getting the job done. It's not there and you know it. The highest place finisher in last nights race was the Championship Winner which is Hudson O'Neal.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Show us where in the 2023 Lucas Oil Late Model Series rulebook that it says the Champion is recognized at the season end for consistently getting the job done. It's not there and you know it. The highest place finisher in last nights race was the Championship Winner which is Hudson O'Neal.

They chose to cheapen the accomplishment. It's not there. The picture man and his merry men decided it was more important to add suspense or something.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The history is corrupted. It's like when Essex talks about how ole Bloomer made the dtwc 34 times. That accomplishment now means absolutely nothing. All you have to do is follow the Lucas tour around to get in the show now.

[TBSprintFan]

They chose to cheapen the accomplishment. It's not there. The picture man and his merry men decided it was more important to add suspense or something.

In maybe yours and a few others they chose to cheapen the accomplishment. I think it's time for you to start your own series, run your rules and see how you do instead of making countless posts a month on here. I have been around this sport for 50+ years and I didn't have no problem with the way it was run this year.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

In maybe yours and a few others they chose to cheapen the accomplishment. I think it's time for you to start your own series, run your rules and see how you do instead of making countless posts a month on here. I have been around this sport for 50+ years and I didn't have no problem with the way it was run this year.

If Forrest pays for everything for me, I'll do it. I've been in it for almost 40 years and it's in trouble. There is no way to equate a 1 race accomplishment with a 40 race one.

[TBSprintFan]

If Forrest pays for everything for me, I'll do it. I've been in it for almost 40 years and it's in trouble. There is no way to equate a 1 race accomplishment with a 40 race one.

Forest has his own series which we are talking about, you are the one that doesn't like the way his series is run. Racing has been in trouble ever since I have been around and it's still here 50+ years later. The real worry is when will the environmentalists shut all of this down, or when racers will have to use electric motors.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Forest has his own series which we are talking about, you are the one that doesn't like the way his series is run. Racing has been in trouble ever since I have been around and it's still here 50+ years later. The real worry is when will the environmentalists shut all of this down, or when racers will have to use electric motors.

Dirt late models were in much better shape in 1987 than 1982. It hasn't always gotten worse. I agree with the rest of your comments. Forrest doesn't run his series. He has idiots to do that for him. That's where I was going with that.

[ride height]

Everyone who ran the series knew the rules up front and chose to run the series. So…the correct person won the championship. You don’t have to like it, I don’t really think it’s fair either. However….the rules were the rules when everyone lined up to run back on the first race of the year knowing what they had to do to win the crown. So….you can do one of a few things….start your own racing series, write a letter to the people who make the rules, don’t follow Lucas anymore, sit back…watch the races and enjoy them, go bar hopping on Saturday nights instead of going to the track… if all the racers who ran the series were ok with it when the season started, they have no basis to complain now. I don’t even hear the racers complaining…only fans.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Ricky is complaining pretty loudly, considering the sponsor of the mess was one of his sponsors. There are more people to satisfy than just the racers. The satisfying the racers first mindset is part of the problems with the sport, tbh

[TBSprintFan]

Dirt late models were in much better shape in 1987 than 1982. It hasn't always gotten worse. I agree with the rest of your comments. Forrest doesn't run his series. He has idiots to do that for him. That's where I was going with that.

And I agree with you about 1987 compared to 1982. So much of it is also in conjunction with the economy of the country, when more people have money, more race cars, less money, less race cars. And also people with money will spend any amount of money to win in any class, just to be a winner. Late Models are not the only one with problems, modifieds are just as bad, first modifieds then they got out of hand price and rule wise, so then b mods and now economy mods.

I know Forest doesn't run the series, but I wouldn't go and say that he has idiots running it for him. I sure and the he!! wouldn't want the job. To keep up with the rules, keeping drivers, car owners and track owners happy and then to find and keep all of the sponsors happy to invest in this sport. That's where this Final Four came about, Big River Steel wanted to add money to the championship but run it the way they wanted it run. As a series would you say no to that and giving the drivers more money? I sure and the he!! wouldn't.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

And I agree with you about 1987 compared to 1982. So much of it is also in conjunction with the economy of the country, when more people have money, more race cars, less money, less race cars. And also people with money will spend any amount of money to win in any class, just to be a winner. Late Models are not the only one with problems, modifieds are just as bad, first modifieds then they got out of hand price and rule wise, so then b mods and now economy mods.

I know Forest doesn't run the series, but I wouldn't go and say that he has idiots running it for him. I sure and the he!! wouldn't want the job. To keep up with the rules, keeping drivers, car owners and track owners happy and then to find and keep all of the sponsors happy to invest in this sport. That's where this Final Four came about, Big River Steel wanted to add money to the championship but run it the way they wanted it run. As a series would you say no to that and giving the drivers more money? I sure and the he!! wouldn't.

Major rules changes were there for plenty of the positive change. Right now, we still have historic prosperity. Blood in the streets is coming. I'm assuming you actually follow sprints more. They aren't as screwed up because the cars are mostly unchanged.

[kidrock]

Playoffs entertain people, all sports use them. Fans can choose whether or not they want to follow the sport. However bellyaching about the rules is a waste of time and energy.

The bellyaching about Nascar is also boring. People that don't like the rules, simply should not follow that sport either.

BTW, I thought that the race Sunday was quite entertaining. I am pretty sure many fans enjoyed it more than the drivers. The big E. did a great job even being able to pull the race off.

I just watched the replay and I agree with you it was quite the entertaining race.. I have always liked the race on a rough track. Ok maybe not that rough but, I think they put on some good races and you can usually find Sheppard at the front.

[Raceready]

I just watched the replay and I agree with you it was quite the entertaining race.. I have always liked the race on a rough track. Ok maybe not that rough but, I think they put on some good races and you can usually find Sheppard at the front.I take it that you also enjoy motocross and enduro races because we seen both at Eldora during that debacle last night ? ?

[MIdlmfan]

The fact there's almost no Rockets left on the two major tours tells a lot too. A few years ago there wasn't a single Longhorn on WoO, now it's just Dennis Erb in a Rocket and look at the year he had.Herd mentality as long as the chassis is sufficiently stiff it’s the shocks and springs you hang off it I seen a Kryptonite go from 17th to 1st last night like they were standing still

[zyoung25]

^^^^ anyone with half of a brain knew that wasn't going to last. That car wasn't lasting another 60-70 taking that much abuse. I think he was going hard while everyone else was trying to conserve. It was fun to watch though.

[stock car driver]

I'm entertained by a good race. The champion is just recognized at season end for consistently getting the job done. I've never counted points while watching a race.

Bet you were paying attention during this race who was going to be the Champion....

[Barbecueboy]

^^^^ anyone with half of a brain knew that wasn't going to last. That car wasn't lasting another 60-70 taking that much abuse. I think he was going hard while everyone else was trying to conserve. It was fun to watch though.

It sure was.

[kidrock]

I take it that you also enjoy motocross and enduro races because we seen both at Eldora during that debacle last night ? ?

I don't know but, some of the best races I've seen has been in the rough.

[lurker]

I've been in it for almost 40 years and it's in trouble.

A solid 42 years for me. And I’d agree, trouble is coming.


There is no way to equate a 1 race accomplishment with a 40 race one.

This years Lucas Champion will always have an asterisk beside it. The one race playoff cheapened the Championship in my opinion, no matter who was leading the points going in.

In my opinion, I’d guess it more has to do with the world we live in today more than anything.

Kind’a like a Participation trophy by definition - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participation_trophy

Lucky for me I can speak with my wallet and TV remote.

[kidrock]

For the record there will be no asterisk behind the Championship. Hudson won it fair and square under the 2023 format. You may not like the format and I don't but, they raced under the same rules and or format for the year. It's not like they changed things midway through the 2023 season. Do I think RTJ deserved the Championship Yes but, that's not reality.

[jog49]

The Lucas Oil late model series has always been touted as the better series when compared to the WoO late model series. The 2023 LOLMS season will be the one that goes down in history where all the luster was taken off that polished comparison.

[backspace]

I seen on another thread where the guy posted that O'Neal only ran 99 laps because of the lucky dog?? I have no idea about this but may make some sense

[lurker]

For the record there will be no asterisk behind the Championship.

In Context, in my book, it will always have a asterisk. Kind’a like others books.

Five sports records that came with asterisks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRidopZprHU

[lurker]

The 2023 LOLMS season will be the one that goes down in history where all the luster was taken off that polished comparison.

Well stated!

[lurker]

kidrock, its just my opinion, nothing more.

[lurker]

I seen on another thread where the guy posted that O'Neal only ran 99 laps because of the lucky dog?? I have no idea about this but may make some sense

Correct. So if we want to talk “Reality” as kidrock stated --- in “Reality”, the 2023 Lucas Champion only ran 99 laps of 100. Again, if we are talking “Reality”, and not some gimmicky lucky dog BS.

[Fast Wheels]

Well, it was the most exciting championship finish ever for Lucazzz. Decided on the last lap of the race.



The word champion has long been cheapened. How many championships are won by guys just showing up at all races tracks or regional series? It’s not the case for this series, but it’s the truth for a lot of them.

With a kind of money, Lucas pays they can have any format they want. This one was definitely more entertaining. Now if they were just make their actual race formats entertaining.

[TBSprintFan]

Major rules changes were there for plenty of the positive change. Right now, we still have historic prosperity. Blood in the streets is coming. I'm assuming you actually follow sprints more. They aren't as screwed up because the cars are mostly unchanged.

From the late 60's when my parents brought me to the races we mostly followed late models and I followed them mostly to early 2000, then went on a sprint car kick from there to just before Covid but still watched and followed late models and since Covid to now mainly late models. Picked the username when I was in the sprint car kick. And I agree totally with your above comment, especially the part "Blood in the streets is coming"

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Bet you were paying attention during this race who was going to be the Champion....

Not really. I assumed it would be the race winner. 2017 was much more interesting, from that standpoint.

[Raceready]

The Lucas Oil late model series has always been touted as the better series when compared to the WoO late model series. The 2023 LOLMS season will be the one that goes down in history where all the luster was taken off that polished comparison.I'll have to agree wholeheartedly with you on that after seeing the way that the debacle played out last weekend. . .

[kidrock]

kidrock, its just my opinion, nothing more.

I can respect that.

[chopter33]

rtj won 2 imca modified national championships. im cool.

[kidrock]

Lurker Reality tells us Hudson still won within the rules of the Lucas series. Lucky dog and all.

[Pennsboro32]

You're allowed to think the race was fun and exciting but also believe that the format was trash.

Masterbilt is pretty spot on with everything he's saying inside this thread IMO.

Asterick by the title winner might be a little too far considering they all played under the same rules, however, what are most people going to remember about the 2023 DLM season ten years from now? Most likely the season RTJ dominated.

I said the same thing on twitter, DLM history is important and it just feels like it has been tainted with. It shouldn't come down to who runs the best in 1 single race.

The drivers took a safe bet at the beginning of the season signing up for lucas knowing that there was a ton of money available, I'd say most of them now don't like how the points were structured.

[ImCryn2]

I seen on another thread where the guy posted that O'Neal only ran 99 laps because of the lucky dog?? I have no idea about this but may make some sense

I had a discussion about this on another thread and don't wish to rehash that, but Moran, Davenport & Thornton most likely didn't complete all the laps during the season leading up to the championship either. I'm fine with all that beings they all played by the same rules all year. I still don't care for the championship format, although it appears as we will see it again since the bean counters say it was successful.

[kidrock]

I think it would have been better to have the points leader going into the DTWC have an advantage meaning the 3 others would have to win the race to win the title. Otherwise it reverts back to the points as were awarded all year.

[Raceready]

I think it would have been better to have the points leader going into the DTWC have an advantage meaning the 3 others would have to win the race to win the title. Otherwise it reverts back to the points as were awarded all year.I think that that makes perfect sense ! !

[GrocMax]

Here's how to run your year next year with the same rules- Only show up to race tracks you do good at, stay in the top 4 in points, because after all the points fund payout isn't for your year long performance anymore, and there'll be fewer teams following the entire tour, because your accumulated points don't count. Heck Bobby could win both titles that way.

[ImCryn2]

Here's how to run your year next year with the same rules- Only show up to race tracks you do good at, stay in the top 4 in points, because after all the points fund payout isn't for your year long performance anymore, and there'll be fewer teams following the entire tour, because your accumulated points don't count. Heck Bobby could win both titles that way.

There is prolly something saying you have to attempt to qualify for all the races to be eligible.

[TBSprintFan]

There is prolly something saying you have to attempt to qualify for all the races to be eligible.

Exactly, I am sure it was already in this year's rules.

[Raceready]

Here's how to run your year next year with the same rules- Only show up to race tracks you do good at, stay in the top 4 in points, because after all the points fund payout isn't for your year long performance anymore, and there'll be fewer teams following the entire tour, because your accumulated points don't count. Heck Bobby could win both titles that way.From what the nation has seen the amazing, amazing " Boy from Ilinoy " has the talent to do both ! !