Stagger Questions

[Cranky]

Is anyone running matching stagger front and rear? I know for the most part, front stagger is usually 0 to 1" and relying on rear stagger to help turn the car. What would running the same amount of stagger across the front that you run in the rear (4 to 5") do to the car getting into and through the corner? Is it correct to think the largest tire should be on the right rear when setting stagger? Just watching some of the newer cars get into and through the corners so smooth these days and started thinking about stagger.

[grt74]

I've seen 5 inches of stagger win, I've seen -1 inch win
the complete setup is where it all works, but in a perfect world, 1-0 inches of stagger would be best for forward traction,
this is why they made that rule where you can not run a rr on the lr anymore, and they also where catching them running 12 inch rims to make the tire taller, so now thats out,

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Is anyone running matching stagger front and rear? I know for the most part, front stagger is usually 0 to 1" and relying on rear stagger to help turn the car. What would running the same amount of stagger across the front that you run in the rear (4 to 5") do to the car getting into and through the corner? Is it correct to think the largest tire should be on the right rear when setting stagger? Just watching some of the newer cars get into and through the corners so smooth these days and started thinking about stagger.

The front tires are not tied together,so front stagger would only affect rolling inertia and wheel loads.

[Jking24]

As masters stated the front wheels are detached from each other so the stagger has no effect on turning the car at least not in the common perception of what stagger does. In order for more stagger to make the car rollster more the left and right must be attached to each other turning at the same speed.

[ZERO25]

There was an engineer many years ago who said that front stagger under an 1 5/8", would lead to undesirable harmonics, due to the loss of stagger under rf loading!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There was an engineer many years ago who said that front stagger under an 1 5/8", would lead to undesirable harmonics, due to the loss of stagger under rf loading!

Was he a civil engineer? Or did he drive a train?

[ZERO25]

Not sure. He worked for Alcoa in TN.

He had several patents to his name!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Now what type of springs, tires, and suspension are we talking about? Harmonics are mass and system spring rate dependent.

[Jking24]

Was he a civil engineer? Or did he drive a train?Does it matter? he was a engineer aren't they all magic

[grt74]

if you don't change anything on the car, all you do is put a shorter lf tire on,
did the stagger help or was it something else that made it turn better, I'm going to say it was something else

years ago i dove into front end geometry with engineers, and this is what we found out, in an independent front end the rf doesn't care what the lf is doing, and roll center really doesn't matter either, now if you want to duplicate the front end now you'll need to know the roll center (don't get me wrong there are jacking forces too, to think about)
roll center is actually more important on the rear of the car because the rear end is a solid axle, so there is that

[Jking24]

if you don't change anything on the car, all you do is put a shorter lf tire on, did the stagger help or was it something else that made it turn better, I'm going to say it was something elseyears ago i dove into front end geometry with engineers, and this is what we found out, in an independent front end the rf doesn't care what the lf is doing, and roll center really doesn't matter either, now if you want to duplicate the front end now you'll need to know the roll center (don't get me wrong there are jacking forces too, to think about)roll center is actually more important on the rear of the car because the rear end is a solid axle, so there is thatYou put a shorter lf tire on you effectively unload that corner witch removes effective spring load. What does a softer lf spring do on deceleration? It fees the car up hence your shorter/ smaller lf tire helping the car turn on entry. Theirs done other small changes such as camber and caster possible changes but I'm fairly certain the reduced wheel load of that corner has the greater overall effect

[grt74]

You put a shorter lf tire on you effectively unload that corner witch removes effective spring load. What does a softer lf spring do on deceleration? It fees the car up hence your shorter/ smaller lf tire helping the car turn on entry. Theirs done other small changes such as camber and caster possible changes but I'm fairly certain the reduced wheel load of that corner has the greater overall effect

bingo !!!!
i try and make the guys use their brain a bit

[fastford]

You put a shorter lf tire on you effectively unload that corner witch removes effective spring load. What does a softer lf spring do on deceleration? It fees the car up hence your shorter/ smaller lf tire helping the car turn on entry. Theirs done other small changes such as camber and caster possible changes but I'm fairly certain the reduced wheel load of that corner has the greater overall effect

we have ran an inch and a half both ways because of what you describe ......

[billetbirdcage]

Surely with front stagger, since the LF is turning faster then the RF: The car will drive right, correct? (sarcasm)

[ZERO25]

I think you mentioned a while back, the rf squishes under load up to 2". Any negatives to that other than losing wedge?

Using a little math, if the spindle pin drops 3/16", youve lost your 1" of stagger.