Horn not playing fair !

[dirtcrazy4u]

Watching Volusia at my neighbors and he has a truck full of new Hoosier tires that he is taking south for a team. We got to talking about all the horns out there this year. His reply was horn is cutting deals for guys, I asked him to explain and his reply was the guys at rocket have it right on there Web site what a chassis will cost. Go look at horns site and all it says is call us. Makes one wonder is all. Triple xxx did it with sprint car chassis and took a lot of business from other manufacturers.

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Nothing wrong w that. Post your price so someone can cut it and get your sale. Sounds like smart business to me.

[eskew11]

Watching Volusia at my neighbors and he has a truck full of new Hoosier tires that he is taking south for a team. We got to talking about all the horns out there this year. His reply was horn is cutting deals for guys, I asked him to explain and his reply was the guys at rocket have it right on there Web site what a chassis will cost. Go look at horns site and all it says is call us. Makes one wonder is all. Triple xxx did it with sprint car chassis and took a lot of business from other manufacturers.

Rocket has tier pricing for all their customers.

[Mod Runner]

As the old saying goes , if you have to ask how much it costs ---you cant afford it !

[Drop Shock]

Watching Volusia at my neighbors and he has a truck full of new Hoosier tires that he is taking south for a team. We got to talking about all the horns out there this year. His reply was horn is cutting deals for guys, I asked him to explain and his reply was the guys at rocket have it right on there Web site what a chassis will cost. Go look at horns site and all it says is call us. Makes one wonder is all. Triple xxx did it with sprint car chassis and took a lot of business from other manufacturers.

Longhorn is not giving cars away, their prices have went through the roof since new ownership took over two years ago. As they should, they build a good product and you gotta pay to play

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I thought this was going to be about the thru rod shocks

[blncfn57]

Longhorn is not selling cars because of the price. Lol

[dirtcrazy4u]

Well I was only making comment on someone that is involved in the game. He and his son have a crate car they play with on occassion and he does motor rebuilds for both slm and crates. The one thing he and I both agree on is if it doesn't soon stop more teams will be lost. They had I believe 56 cars in Volusia, just how many of those 56 had a chance to finish top 10. My neighbor said 13, I laughed but after thinking about it I went with 15. We did agree on 1 thing, most every racer in florida for speedweeks is losing money. We both thought the purses in florida are terrible, there should not be a 5000 to win show when you have a back gate that is as big as some are pulling in.

[ZERO25]

Well I was only making comment on someone that is involved in the game. He and his son have a crate car they play with on occassion and he does motor rebuilds for both slm and crates. The one thing he and I both agree on is if it doesn't soon stop more teams will be lost. They had I believe 56 cars in Volusia, just how many of those 56 had a chance to finish top 10. My neighbor said 13, I laughed but after thinking about it I went with 15. We did agree on 1 thing, most every racer in florida for speedweeks is losing money. We both thought the purses in florida are terrible, there should not be a 5000 to win show when you have a back gate that is as big as some are pulling in.

In fairness to Volusia, locals dont support it very well! Weather was bad for this time of year, but until the Yanks show up, purses will be low!

[dirtcrazy4u]

Some gear to win, most gear to keep racing. Volusia is a hammer down track, I wonder how many had to swap bullets.

[bleedblue55]

Some gear to win, most gear to keep racing. Volusia is a hammer down track, I wonder how many had to swap bullets.
Oneal posted that they changed one out after Friday

[zyoung25]

Some gear to win, most gear to keep racing. Volusia is a hammer down track, I wonder how many had to swap bullets.

An engine lapped out 1 race into the season. That's a head scratcher 🤔


I thought this was going to be about the thru rod shocks

Give it a couple more days.

[Henry Every]

Watching Volusia at my neighbors and he has a truck full of new Hoosier tires that he is taking south for a team. We got to talking about all the horns out there this year. His reply was horn is cutting deals for guys, I asked him to explain and his reply was the guys at rocket have it right on there Web site what a chassis will cost. Go look at horns site and all it says is call us. Makes one wonder is all. Triple xxx did it with sprint car chassis and took a lot of business from other manufacturers. Triple XXX builds their frames in China, thats how they sell so much cheaper... I think some people see conspiracy where they want to. With inflation running hot I imagine prices are constantly in flux. I'm no Longhorn fan, but I imagine winning races and championships while also not being a world class horse's caboose helps sell cars as well. Hard to beat customer service.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Henry I have to agree with your customer service comment. Not sure who it was but they made the comment about having issues at volusia. He mentioned Rumley and Arpin among others came over to his pit to help him out. On a race day that is impressive.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Deals are nothing new. It's just that it was always a public price and other people got one for a lower price.

[bleedblue55]

[QUOTE=zyoung25;2478055]An engine lapped out 1 race into the season. That's a head scratcher 樂

Considering all the preseason testing that goes on now it's not. Pretty sure most of the top teams have already pounded lots of laps at G.I., East Bay, and Volusia.

[manwplan]

So Longhorn is doing what Rocket has done for decades. Ensure that the best teams are in their product. No one cared when Rocket did it but now its a problem when Longhorn does it. (full disclosure, I think its bad having 2 brands dominate the sport)

[golddirt]

I thought this was gonna be about the 10 minute airhorn! So disappointed

[Oiler]

I thought this was gonna be about the 10 minute airhorn! So disappointed

Now that's funny right there 😆

[Flathead]

I think this may be in the running for dumbest post of the year so far on 4M. Rockets prices on their website are probably a rough estimate, longhorn’s puts call for pricing on theirs, the price of steel and aluminum changes on a daily and weekly basis and every manufacturer out there has to constantly change prices on items. It’s not just race cars it’s everything. Everyone on here wants love on Longhorn and hate on Rocket every chance they get. I don’t choose a side between the two but I’d love to see Mark Richards hire Kevin Rumley out from underneath Longhorn just to see the meltdown on 4M!

[Highside Hustler25]

There is a lot of hatred on here towards a guy most have never met but that's 4m for ya.

[fastford]

flat head , the problem with adjusting your price according to price of raw materials is when those prices go up , so does cost of product , BUT , when the price of raw materials go down , the price of the product does not , it happens in every thing from race cars to cost of eating out .....

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Fastford
You bring up a very good/true point. Thank you!

[jog49]

"Longhorn is not selling cars because of the price. Lol"

That's right. And if you don't like the way they do business, jump out there and manufacture a better car and you can fashion the price and presentation any way you like.

[fastford]

I wish it was that easy jog , but if your a small chassis builder and you do build a better product , if you cant afford to give a top driver or two free chassis , you will never get the exposure , been that way for quiet a while now , use to be if you built a chassis capable of winning and got a good shoe to put in it and they won just one big race , your phone would be ringing of the hook the next day , not any more , its considered just a fluke now ....jmo...

[84wedge]

I thought this was going to be about the thru rod shocksWhat are these?

[formercrewguy]

I wish it was that easy jog , but if your a small chassis builder and you do build a better product , if you cant afford to give a top driver or two free chassis , you will never get the exposure , been that way for quiet a while now , use to be if you built a chassis capable of winning and got a good shoe to put in it and they won just one big race , your phone would be ringing of the hook the next day , not any more , its considered just a fluke now ....jmo...

Case in point.....Bloomquist and Warrior!

[billetbirdcage]

What are these?

A shock that was deemed illegal years and years ago, but bilstein made the shock where basically it had a cover on the top of it so the shaft didn't get exposed out the top of the shock that a "thru rod" shock did. So they circumvented the rule to a degree if you want to call it that as the shaft didn't come out of the top of the shock any more (still did just covered up now).

Most people would say it was still a thru rod shock and others say they got around the wording of the rule thus legal until they define the wording of the rules better. So bilstein was allowed to run the shock last year until penske sort of brought it out in the open by making posts about releasing thier version of it, to make people talk about it and make a ruling on it, which lucas/WoO did and it's Illegal

That's the very short and condensed version, lol

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Former crew guy

You are 100% correct about Warrior/Bloomquist- he put them on the map on the national scene for several years. The Goddard family sold the business 3-4 years ago to Mike who was their fabricator. Mostly building crates for local racers these days.

[zyoung25]

A shock that was deemed illegal years and years ago, but bilstein made the shock where basically it had a cover on the top of it so the shaft didn't get exposed out the top of the shock that a "thru rod" shock did. So they circumvented the rule to a degree if you want to call it that as the shaft didn't come out of the top of the shock any more (still did just covered up now).

Most people would say it was still a thru rod shock and others say they got around the wording of the rule thus legal until they define the wording of the rules better. So bilstein was allowed to run the shock last year until penske sort of brought it out in the open by making posts about releasing thier version of it, to make people talk about it and make a ruling on it, which lucas/WoO did and it's Illegal

That's the very short and condensed version, lol

I feel like the only reason they released it to "sell" was because they have already moved on to the next mouse trap. They knew it was going to get banned. The comments I seen on social media from Bilstein was kind of comical to read.

[jog49]

This whole thread is about Longhorn not having the price of their chassis on their website and supposedly cutting deals with drivers/owners behind the curtain . . . ....a practice, apparently, that makes someone think they are not playing "fair". That person has too much time on his/her hands and should seek employment!

[dirtcrazy4u]

Well jog I respectfully disagree. Bloomquist put Warrior on the map. I would say he got a bare chassis or 2 for bringing as much business as he did to there doors. Horns are really good cars right now. In order to stay there and have teams share information which when it comes to winning that isn't going to last. Madden isn't sharing sh*t. My friend and neighbor must be a pretty good tuner because he will be in the pits of 3 slm teams this weekend at Golden isles. Remember that old saying, it's not what you think you know but who you do know thats right in the middle of it all. I'll be leaving for GI tomorrow and hope to see if his hands are getting dirty.

[EvelB7]

I hope Longhorn can survive, stopped by the other day and the parking lot is starting to come apart from all the haulers picking up new cars...In the end, the sport always comes down to three things (and a fourth is coming more into play than ever)-Driver, Car, Engine (the fourth being Crew Chief). Engines are making so much power you no longer hear that card being played much, most teams the driver is the last excuse, so that leaves the car. People are running straight to Longhorn to solve the problem because of the success they have shown, trust me when I say it will come back around. When the guy who finished 15th in the Rocket still finishes 15th in the Longhorn, what is next? At the end of the day, congrats to Longhorn on the success and enjoy while you can (great people and along with Barry Wright some of the fairest you will deal with).

[jog49]

Right from the get-go, you left out SHOCKS. Their consideration lately seems to outweigh the four things you suggested. I'm still trying to imagine 500+ CI small block engines!

[jog49]

I don't know if Chris Madden has ever "shared" information since he became a driver and not Barry Wright's setup man. If one is making a living racing, it seems foolish to share anything as it gives your fellow competitors an advantage to, possibly, beating you. That said, I don't know if I would share information either.
As to Longhorn though, there are drivers/teams sharing information and Kevin Rumley is seen at all the races fine tuning the cars for multiple drivers.
Bottom line, if one wants to know the price of a chassis, call them! You don't need Congressional approval.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Right from the get-go, you left out SHOCKS. Their consideration lately seems to outweigh the four things you suggested. I'm still trying to imagine 500+ CI small block engines!

Vastly overrated waste of resources

[foxfire2dirtracing]

FWIW:
Madden uses Penske shocks instead of Bilstein who Rumley is associated with. Most of the Longhorn teams are using Bilsteins. Brandon Overton does not- but rumors floating about his future with Longhorn as well.

[EvelB7]

Right from the get-go, you left out SHOCKS. Their consideration lately seems to outweigh the four things you suggested. I'm still trying to imagine 500+ CI small block engines!Shocks can be another excuse, but I probably unfairly put that in with car (or maybe even the crew chief addition). Haven't been around the 500+CI, but have the 460-480 range. They have enough horsepower that manufacturer doesn't make that much difference besides maybe on the dependability and or customer service side....On the original topic, Longhorn has every right to 'give deals' to anyone they wish; a smart business man makes his product so that everyone wants it and prices it so they make that choice- just as it appears they have done.

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Question:
Are most major engine builders about the same in price??

[foxfire2dirtracing]

I know many years ago when Ford first started in the late models-Larry Clark ( Custom Race Engines) told me that you could get more horsepower out of a Ford but it cost a lot more money to do.

[billetbirdcage]

Question:
Are most major engine builders about the same in price??

Yes, for the most part. It does vary on what brand of motor your talking about or what style of motor.

Last I knew a new chevy from Clemens is 55K

[foxfire2dirtracing]

^^ Thank you sir.

[Josh Bayko]

Longhorn bodies are the goofiest, most twisted up and crooked messes out all the manufacturers. Every car in the pits is technically illegal if you teched em to the letter of the rulebook, but Longhorns are laughably out of the spirit of the rules.

[foxfire2dirtracing]

^^^ probably a result of wind tunnel testing.

[EvelB7]

I know many years ago when Ford first started in the late models-Larry Clark ( Custom Race Engines) told me that you could get more horsepower out of a Ford but it cost a lot more money to do.Ford had a far superior head design at the time. Chevrolet has caught up some, hell they really are not 'Chevy or Ford' anymore. Big numbers out of both (horsepower and CI), when Yates and Childress decided to go short track racing it definitely changed the game. I don't think the price difference is nearly what it was (and neither is the difference in power).

[Josh Bayko]

^^^ probably a result of wind tunnel testing.

I’m sure. I’d bet a Rocket has seen a wind tunnel at some point too, but they aren’t nearly as garish.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Fun fact. A dirt late model will not fit into a wind tunnel at the correct yaw.

But a lot of folks who buy fully assembled cars have paid to get in there and play around with hood pin orientation or something.

[fastford]

I know many years ago when Ford first started in the late models-Larry Clark ( Custom Race Engines) told me that you could get more horsepower out of a Ford but it cost a lot more money to do.

I was thinking that was Larry Wallace , could be wrong though .....

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Larry Clark owned Custom Race Engines and was in the same Building with Warrior Race Cars. Part of the Goddard Construction Facility located on John Sevier Hwy. outside of Knoxville. Larry tried retiring several times to the beach but had to return to help his son in the business. It if now fulling closed and no longer operating.

Interesting fact on Larry: he lived in the Charlotte area and paid his way thru graduate college working in an engine shop of a NASCAR team. He enrolled in law school at the University of Tennessee and continued building/working on engines to pay for his education.
He graduated law school-passed the bar- and got his law license but did not practice law 1 single day because his race engine business was booming!
Just thought I would share that- hopefully someone finds it interesting?

[Mopar DLM]

Larry Wallace was the head engine man at Penske racing before starting his own engine shop building dirt late model engines.

[EvelB7]

Yates and Wallace did share some things back and forth. Yates also sold quite a bit of his used stuff through another builder (can't believe I am missing the name); did a lot of stuff for Carlton Lamb back then. I remember Carlton asking Yates what he could do about getting beat off the corner, Yates told him to put more gear in it. Carlton said something like 'it's already turning over 8,500', Robert replied 'I didn't ask what you where turning it, if you need more off the corner give it gear until you outrun them'.

[blncfn57]

I know many years ago when Ford first started in the late models-Larry Clark ( Custom Race Engines) told me that you could get more horsepower out of a Ford but it cost a lot more money to do.

I believe that used to be true, but not so much anymore. They're all expensive aftermarket pieces now, only 'based' on one manufacturer or another.

[klemmabyna]

...Just thought I would share that- hopefully someone finds it interesting?

i could read stuff like you guys are adding here all day.

[fastford]

I,m getting a bit confused in my old age , lol , I guess I had yates on my mind because I met larry wallace sveral times at there place in Mooresville , I knew who larry clark was , just a brain fart I guess......thanks for helping me out fox .....

[foxfire2dirtracing]

Fastford
No problem- I’m old too!
But heck -we’re still alive and kicking & that’s awesome within itself!

[dirtcrazy4u]

Being there last night I just have 1 question. Where are the rule makers ? If you haven't seen how much the horn bodies are all twisted up. Unbelievable ... I'll say it, this is going to be the biggest talked about story all year.

[james777777]

Engines are what they are. Anyone that has a modern engine from one of the main builders is competitive. Obviously when it gets slick, power curves matter. But the power is there with anyone.

[Mod Runner]

The twisted Longhorn bodies did not appear to work better than the Ford powered Rocket chassis of Hudson Oneal. Hudson started off the 2024 season by winning two features in Florida . The Longhorn racers may be going down the wrong path with the twisted bodies.

[kidrock]

The twisted Longhorn bodies did not appear to work better than the Ford powered Rocket chassis of Hudson Oneal. Hudson started off the 2024 season by winning two features in Florida . The Longhorn racers may be going down the wrong path with the twisted bodies.

Well In the commercial on DoD Eddie Carrier Jr does say they would be back.

[Barbecueboy]

I was thinking that was Larry Wallace , could be wrong though .....

Loved the sound of that thing when it rolled by……that lw dodge beast had a certain “quiet roar” about it.