Lug Nuts

Got a teaser update from The National Speed Sport News over the weekend. In that teaser contained a short article on Stewart and his latest problems with NASCAR. Generally Stewart is so absorbed with being condescending and unnecessarily sarcastic but on this lug nut issue he actually takes a valid point.

But the question should be also asked why NASCAR, in their infinite wisdom and never ending quest for additional safety of the drivers and crew members, has yet to allow the teams to implement an air lift system for pit stop tire changes and go to a one retaining nut for each wheel. This would mean less danger by doing away with a man toting a jack around the car on pit stops and far less chance of a loose wheel that could possibly cause driver or spectator injury with the single large wheel retaining nut. No chance of the car falling off the jack, either.

Smokey Yunick implemented an air lift system on an early 1960's NASCAR Pontiac similar to the system he had used on his Indy roadster and he was forced (by NASCAR) to remove it from the car. Smokey said in his book that the air lift system should have been used then and should still be used and I'll take Smokey's word for it over any cokamamie NASCAR knucklehead. And, the single lug nut makes plenty of sense, too. For speed of pit stops and overall safety, as well. Smokey said the added weight is negligible and the benefit far outweighs any possible downside.

Nascar fined Stewart 35,000.00 dollars just a few days ago for speaking out about nascar not requiring all 5 lug nutz being on the wheel, now nascar sent a memo out to the teams saying that all 5 lug nutz have to be on the wheel.

Really a no brainer. Requiring a full compliment of lug nuts seems like it should be rather high on list of priorities of a complete pit stop. Stewart is spot on regarding that subject and commenting with common sense really shouldn't be cause for being fined. Obviously Stewart has said some stupid and hypocritical things over the years but this wasn't one of them.

My injection of the Indy Car style air lift and single large wheel nut is some thoughts we've had since reading Mr. Yunick's take on it several years ago. After all Smokey had plenty of credibility on these matters since he was responsible for the advent of the rubberized aircraft style fuel cell and he built a workable version of the safer barrier 20 or more years prior to it being originally used at Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

With safety being of prime concern it seems rather incredulous that the available jacking and wheel fastener technology hasn't been implemented in the name of safety, if for no other reason.

I'm glad to see NASCAR mandate the 5 lug nut rule back into existence .... what fun would it be for all forms of racing to be identical? Nothing wrong with NASCAR'S system .... just needs a little tweaking once in a while...

How about a thirty second mandatory pit stop for all pit stops. Thus stopping lug nut issues, gas can and air hoses stuck on cars, crew members getting hit by cars, and wheels rolling out into traffic. Put an end to the pit stop madness.

Not a perfect answer I know.

Hmmmm. I'd be interested in knowing exactly how making pit stops safer for the people providing the service or the drivers on the track or the spectators in the grandstands would lessen the "fun". That is what the airlifts would provide, a bit of added safety in a very unsafe environment. As far as the single wheel nut goes it makes sense in that the chances of a loose wheel causing possible danger to the driver or an errant wheel and tire possibly injuring spectators is reduced.

I'm not sure there is anyone with lofty enough qualifications to take issue with some of Smokey Yunick's beliefs, if so then lets all see it. He saw both sides of the equation from a prime participant's point of view at the highest levels from the highest intellectual perspective.

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

How about a thirty second mandatory pit stop for all pit stops. Thus stopping lug nut issues, gas can and air hoses stuck on cars, crew members getting hit by cars, and wheels rolling out into traffic. Put an end to the pit stop madness.

Not a perfect answer I know.

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You bring up a very compelling point Clayton. You get a greeny!! LOL!

However, the elite, highly resourced teams would be slightly emasculated from their lofty advantaged positions. Mandatory 30 second pit stops would essentially eliminate the need for high dollar pit stop specialists that for the most part are trained and/or bought up by the highly funded teams. However, these elite teams seem to be the utmost of NASCAR's priorities along with keeping them and their big buck sponsors as happy as possible so don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Mandatory length pit stops would also eliminate the on track advantages provided by quicker, more efficient pit stops. The role of the car and driver would be increasingly intrinsic to the ultimate outcome since the pit stop advantages would be eliminated. Also the pit violations would be greatly reduced which also would play into the outcome on the track, as well. It's a safe bet that NASCAR's big money people would not be all that happy about that, either.

Eliminating the element and influence of money in as many ways possible is always good and keeping the competition on the track as opposed to pit road is also an aspiration. But NASCAR has wildly different outlook for reasons that obviously have nothing to do with the quality of the on track product.

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Originally Posted by CIRF

Got a teaser update from The National Speed Sport News over the weekend. In that teaser contained a short article on Stewart and his latest problems with NASCAR. Generally Stewart is so absorbed with being condescending and unnecessarily sarcastic but on this lug nut issue he actually takes a valid point. But the question should be also asked why NASCAR, in their infinite wisdom and never ending quest for additional safety of the drivers and crew members, has yet to allow the teams to implement an air lift system for pit stop tire changes and go to a one retaining nut for each wheel. This would mean less danger by doing away with a man toting a jack around the car on pit stops and far less chance of a loose wheel that could possibly cause driver or spectator injury with the single large wheel retaining nut. No chance of the car falling off the jack, either. Smokey Yunick implemented an air lift system on an early 1960's NASCAR Pontiac similar to the system he had used on his Indy roadster and he was forced (by NASCAR) to remove it from the car. Smokey said in his book that the air lift system should have been used then and should still be used and I'll take Smokey's word for it over any cokamamie NASCAR knucklehead. And, the single lug nut makes plenty of sense, too. For speed of pit stops and overall safety, as well. Smokey said the added weight is negligible and the benefit far outweighs any possible downside.

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Very good observation. For once Stewart has a valid point! As some what of a motor racing ace, you no doubt remember the time that the car lost its wheel at the Brickyard and it landed in the bleachers and the resulting carnage. I think with this latest gimmick that NASCAR has dreamed up is just opening themselves up for a massive class action lawsuit. They are in essence grasping at straws to bring back attendance. I have also had the thought ever since Bill Elliotts crew member that there should be a mandatory time on the pit stop length in the interest of safety. What the hay, all of the driver are regulated {supposedly} on entrance and exit speeds so why cant we bring the pit stop time down to a speed that every team can handle safely. My throw in a guide line for the difference between a 2 or 4 tire stop and another base for a gas and go?

Raceready, Stewart often has valid and well thought out ideas. It's the needless unfavorable attitude, unnecessary arrogance and the blatant hypocrisy that becomes tiresome and in some cases loathsome.

I was at Indianapolis the day the wheel went into the grandstands. It was not a situation that auto racing needs making headlines.

I also remember back in the early 1990's at Atlanta when Ricky Rudd was running too much rear brake bias and was coming into the pits hot, got on the brakes hard, locked up the rear wheels and spun 180° into the right rear of Bill Elliott's Thunderbird killing the #9 car crew member Mike Rich instantly as a result. This horrible mishap was what precipitated pit road speed limits.

All the things mentioned above, the air lifts, single large wheel nuts and mandated pit time minimums would most certainly make for a safer environment in the pits, on the racetrack and in the grandstands. The mandatory pit stop time policies would certainly need to be refined and that would take some time and clearly thought out protocol but beneficial, nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by mudslinger47

I'm glad to see NASCAR mandate the 5 lug nut rule back into existence .... what fun would it be for all forms of racing to be identical? Nothing wrong with NASCAR'S system .... just needs a little tweaking once in a while...

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Do you want as much safety as possible or fun? It's a bit unclear how air lifts and single nut wheels would dampen the "fun".

In fact, there IS something wrong with a system that doesn't afford the safest conditions possible for drivers and race day crew members.

yelp smokey was ahead of the game and it still should be used today,but know these cars our run by computers it gives Nascar more control over them. yellow flag pit stops yes should mandate 15 sec stops give driver time to get more fluids in him.

will nascar recind tonys fine now?

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

How about a thirty second mandatory pit stop for all pit stops. Thus stopping lug nut issues, gas can and air hoses stuck on cars, crew members getting hit by cars, and wheels rolling out into traffic. Put an end to the pit stop madness.

Not a perfect answer I know.

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Mostly because the pit stop is part of the race, part of the challenge and part of the planning.... that would eliminate one third of the race challenge...

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Originally Posted by CIRF

Do you want as much safety as possible or fun? It's a bit unclear how air lifts and single nut wheels would dampen the "fun".

In fact, there IS something wrong with a system that doesn't afford the safest conditions possible for drivers and race day crew members.

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I watched an F1 pit stop on face book, I believe their were about twelve guys over the wall to do the stop.... one brake malfunction and many injured... looks less safe to me....

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Originally Posted by mudslinger47

Mostly because the pit stop is part of the race, part of the challenge and part of the planning.... that would eliminate one third of the race challenge...

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The pit stops would not be eliminated, they would only be standardized time-wise so as to decrease the advantages of the highly funded teams who can afford to train or hire highly paid specialists that really have no relevance to the competition on the racetrack. They are peripheral to the actual competition between car and driver against car and driver. This is one "gimmick" that would earn NASCAR back some of the credibility it's squandered over the past decade or so in the form of actually implementing a policy that would cut costs and would somewhat level the financial playing field for the lesser funded teams.

Smokey Yunick once said USAC Silver Crown races are the last true racing competition in America. Qualify the cars. Start 'em straight up, run 100 miles and see who's able to manage their car and right rear so as to be the fastest the last 25 miles of the race. No pit stops for tires or fuel. In a Silver Crown 100 miler if ya' pit ya' lose. That's why I enjoy the Crown 100 milers. It's strategy from the drivers seat instead of from computers and high priced race strategists.

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Originally Posted by mudslinger47

I watched an F1 pit stop on face book, I believe their were about twelve guys over the wall to do the stop.... one brake malfunction and many injured... looks less safe to me....

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F1 is not the subject nor is there any comparisons being made in that regard.

Allow the exact same number of people over the wall as NASCAR allows now but do it without a tricked up floor jack that costs thousands and replace it with 4 small reusable air bags that will emerge out of the bottom of the car to lift the car merely by pushing a quick-attach air fitting onto a common fitting placed about anywhere on the outside of the car and voila!! the whole car is raised in a level, easy and safe manner. To let the car down just detach the air supply and down on the tires it goes. No jack man exposed to traffic on the right side running around with a floor jack, much smaller chance of the car dropping inadvertently due to a possible unstable external jack. Safer? Definitely.

The single nut wheel fasteners are pretty much self explanatory. Obviously it's easier to be sure that 4 wheel nuts are secure as opposed to 20 lug nuts.

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Originally Posted by CIRF

The pit stops would not be eliminated, they would only be standardized time-wise so as to decrease the advantages of the highly funded teams who can afford to train or hire highly paid specialists that really have no relevance to the competition on the racetrack. They are peripheral to the actual competition between car and driver against car and driver. This is one "gimmick" that would earn NASCAR back some of the credibility it's squandered over the past decade or so in the form of actually implementing a policy that would cut costs and would somewhat level the financial playing field for the lesser funded teams.

Smokey Yunick once said USAC Silver Crown races are the last true racing competition in America. Qualify the cars. Start 'em straight up, run 100 miles and see who's able to manage their car and right rear so as to be the fastest the last 25 miles of the race. No pit stops for tires or fuel. In a Silver Crown 100 miler if ya' pit ya' lose. That's why I enjoy the Crown 100 milers. It's strategy from the drivers seat instead of from computers and high priced race strategists.

F1 is not the subject nor is there any comparisons being made in that regard.

Allow the exact same number of people over the wall as NASCAR allows now but do it without a tricked up floor jack that costs thousands and replace it with 4 small reusable air bags that will emerge out of the bottom of the car to lift the car merely by pushing a quick-attach air fitting onto a common fitting placed about anywhere on the outside of the car and voila!! the whole car is raised in a level, easy and safe manner. To let the car down just detach the air supply and down on the tires it goes. No jack man exposed to traffic on the right side running around with a floor jack, much smaller chance of the car dropping inadvertently due to a possible unstable external jack. Safer? Definitely.

The single nut wheel fasteners are pretty much self explanatory. Obviously it's easier to be sure that 4 wheel nuts are secure as opposed to 20 lug nuts.

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I think your missing the point but that's OK, NASCAR isn't listening to us anyway....

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Originally Posted by mudslinger47

I think your missing the point but that's OK, NASCAR isn't listening to us anyway....

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Well, you're 1 for 2.

The point is not missed, the point is added safety in the pits as well as on the track and to somewhat level the financial playing field for the lesser funded teams.

But, you're absolutely correct about NASCAR not listening. If they were watching and listening they wouldn't have gone out of their way to alienate more than half the fan base of just a dozen years ago in the name of keeping the big money teams and sponsors happy with their gimmicks and lack of rules enforcement consistency.

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Originally Posted by mudslinger47

Mostly because the pit stop is part of the race, part of the challenge and part of the planning.... that would eliminate one third of the race challenge...

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Pit stops should be the same for all, to insure that that race is won during the race itself. Good luck or bad luck in the pits should be far less of a factor than what it is now.

I agree clayton totally