Need Some help..

Hey Guys...,We run a asphalt car and turn both ways. The car has birdcages with a watts link and a torque arm. We normally run a leaf spring/coil over helper combination with a torque arm. We were wanting to try something lighter and more adjustable. Our shock builder suggested this type of setup. So basically where I'm at is the only thing I know about a 4 bar on birdcages is what I can read on the internet. No one around has tried this on an asphalt figure 8 car around here. Right now the cage is at 12 and 6. Upper bar currently 9deg and lower 6deg bot going uphill to chassis. the car is always really tight on throttle in the middle and off. Any help as what we could do to tune this thing better would help. Im conflicted about what I read since most of you are turning one way. Lol just some theory help would be great. Thanks

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Originally Posted by R13G

Hey Guys...,We run a asphalt car and turn both ways. The car has birdcages with a watts link and a torque arm. We normally run a leaf spring/coil over helper combination with a torque arm. We were wanting to try something lighter and more adjustable. Our shock builder suggested this type of setup. So basically where I'm at is the only thing I know about a 4 bar on birdcages is what I can read on the internet. No one around has tried this on an asphalt figure 8 car around here. Right now the cage is at 12 and 6. Upper bar currently 9deg and lower 6deg bot going uphill to chassis. the car is always really tight on throttle in the middle and off. Any help as what we could do to tune this thing better would help. Im conflicted about what I read since most of you are turning one way. Lol just some theory help would be great. Thanks

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Lots of info missing. And no visual of car on track. Are you maybe just too soft on rear springs?

Sorry. I figured I would get the lack of Info comment. LOL I get that. Not sure what info you need is all. car is 2520# with driver and 55% rear weight. We have 225# springs on the rear currently. Seemed like raising both upper arms 1/2" helped free it up a bit.

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Originally Posted by R13G

Sorry. I figured I would get the lack of Info comment. LOL I get that. Not sure what info you need is all. car is 2520# with driver and 55% rear weight. We have 225# springs on the rear currently. Seemed like raising both upper arms 1/2" helped free it up a bit.

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Are your links 4.5" from axle centerline? What are your wheel travels compared to before? Wheel, not shock. Do the math. I think you are too soft.

we are currently 5.5" from centerline. RightFoot cages. not sure wheel travel. Watts link at 9". neuline torque arm with there rubbers.1 on top 2 on bottom

Like I said this is so new to me I just got thrown into it kinda. I'm trying to find a baseline that's stable and what adjustments to make.its hard when all the oval stuff says to do oppisites on each side.Not sure what changes to make to turn right and left

shocks both behind axle

More angle in top or bottom bar will promote roll steer. That component will loosen the car all around the corner.

Where are springs mounted? That determins how the angles effect wheel rate.

Springs also in the rear on the shock. Coil over

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Originally Posted by R13G

Springs also in the rear on the shock. Coil over

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Knowing that, you have to be wayyyy too soft on springs with that kind of weight.

I would raise lower bars and stiffen springs 50 to 75#

Ok when you say raise lower bars...Do you mean at the axle or at the chassis? I appreciate your help so far

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Originally Posted by R13G

Ok when you say raise lower bars...Do you mean at the axle or at the chassis? I appreciate your help so far

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At the chassis.

Ok... Would you think I would run the lower at more of an angle than the upper?

I run the same style cars as you do at orange show. I run a pull bar on three link rear with the shocks behind with similar weight numbers (57 rear). Knowing 3 link is way different than a birdcage 4 link with neuline bar, I started with 250# rears and now have 225s, I will most likely land near a 185 rate to get better load numbers. Also, I have honestly really wanted to run a 4 bar outlaw car and have planned on it for next year. Are you on a rear sway bar? Jeremy Queener Eibach Springs

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Originally Posted by R13G

Ok... Would you think I would run the lower at more of an angle than the upper?

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I would with the springs on the back.

Why so much rear %? I have worked on some asphalt lms and never had over 52%.