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I installed a Essy pulley onto my engine recently. I did not change a thing with the cam or intermediate shaft pulleys or timing belt. When I put a timing light on the car it reads 70+ degrees of timing. After a few laps I pulled the plugs and they appear to have very little signs of detonation so I know it really isn't at 70+ degrees of timing. My question is could the intermediate shaft being out of alignment cause a false timing reading? Or is there some other thing I should be looking at?
Esslinger,Race Engineering,Ford use different pointers to mark TDC.Make sure you are using the right pointer for the pulley you are using.
having the same prob with the same pulley, but the car was running good at 32* then the car quit one night and when i fired it back up it wouldnt run on 32 but now has to be in the 70's. ive changed distributor, module, coil had the motor, and head all redone, changed everything on the motor to do with ignition. when #1 is on tdc the pointer is at 0* tdc. ive tried it with the stock cam gear, cam adv 2* and 4* and no change. ive had 3 diffrent people set the cam and all the timing just to make sure i wasnt doing something wrong never any change. ive tried 3 different timing lights. everyone i know is stumped and ive run out of ideas, it will run on 32* but sounds real bad and has no throttle response and revs real slow but put it on about 72* and it is real crisp and has good throttle response. ive talked to a few people that said they have the same problem. the pulleys look good the keyway is in perfect shape so it cant move around. anyone else have any ideas like i said head and motor rebuilt, all new ignition componets, 3 people set up the cam and timing and same results.
Did you try running the engine with out the tach hooked up?
tryed it already, still no change.
Distributor rotor-phasing?? Got an old,spare distributor cap? Drill a .5" hole right next to the #1 plug wire, in line with the rotor. Roll the engine up to 32-degrees BTDC on the ignition/compression stroke, & observe where the rotor tip is positioned compared to the #1 contact in the distributor cap. Don't be surprised if it's WAY off! A large majority of racers/engine guys, including yours truly, have been, or are still guilty of NOT checking rotor phasing in the distributor. You'd be surprised at how many of your 'engine run' problems will go away with proper prep/alignment within the distributor. -Dave-
I'm guilty of that also. 30-40 degrees is a ton of change. Now with 2 different distributors doing the same thing is strange and hard to explain. But if the pulley is mis marked in 1/2 degree increments then the 32 to 36 would be 64 to 72 degrees of timing with the light on the pulley. Something to think about but I would really be putting a degree wheel on the motor to double check the marks on the pulley.
The 2 cars are team cars, we race together most every week. We will call Hotrods car the Red car and mine the Black car for this post. :)
I helped the red car put the pulley on originally and it was at 32-36 the first time we put it on the car. The Black cars pulley was just installed a couple weeks ago and it was 70+ from the start. I will check the phasing tonight and see what I can come up with there.
We talked about the timing being exactly double what it should be and I have been keeping a close eye on the plugs which look very good. If it weren't for the Red car being right the first time the pulley was put on the car we could say it's just a miss marked pulley but there is something else there we just haven't found yet. We were just hoping others have had the same problem. One of us will post what we find as soon as we figure it out. Thanks for the ideas so far guys!
We had similar issues the first time we installed a Big E pulley. I let myself get good and frustrated trying to figure out why they marked it where they did (we didn't have their pointer), and just what the heck all the increments were for.
Finally, after a couple 12 oz cans of encouragement, I just built my own pointer, found TDC with a solid stop in a plug hole, and made my own mark on the pulley with a center punch. Timed it with a SnapOn adjustable light dialed in at 36° and she ran fine.
We've been doing it this way ever since, regardless of pulley.
let me ask you this,did you have to space the crank pulley out any to get the water pump belt to run even? the reason i ask is we have 2 crank pulleys from Esslinger,1 bolts right on,the other we had to space out...the one that bolts right on also matches right up to their pointer...the one that has to be spaced out,does not line up to their pointer...they said the one that requires spacing is for the Ford 2.0...even though we ordered for a 2.3
we didnt have to space the pulley any, and when the #1 cly is at tdc the pointer reads tdc so dont really think the pointer could be the issue. and remember this car ran great at 32* then quit one night while idleing then when we fired it back up it never ran at 32* again, now its 70's. when it quit it was pretty low on fuel and didnt realize it, so it think it ran out of fuel, so i put more fuel in it and it started up just wasnt running right till the 70's now our team mate is having the same prob. the same person didnt do each car so its not cause the same person is doing the work.
A little food for thought here, mainly because the physics just don't seem to add up.
Here's a pic of a spare Esslinger pulley I had in the garage (sorry for the poor quality ... phone cam). In a Ford 2300, when #1 is at TDC, the crank keyway points straight up. So, given the marks shown here, if your pointer is right over top of the crank, and you had your ignition timing set at 32 degrees actual BTDC, the pointer would point at the 77 degree mark when your timing light strobed.
http://scalded-dog-racing.com/images/Essy.jpg
I suspect that when the "Red car" ran out of fuel and quit, it backfired on it's last gasp, and actually knocked the cam to crank timing off, and when you readjusted that, and tried to set your ignition timing at 32 BTDC, you were actually setting it at 13 ATDC .... which is why it ran so poorly.
Again, this is just a guess based on the info you've given.
when you look at the pulley at tdc it sets about how it is in the pic with the pointer over the tdc mark on the top left quarter. i set it at the 32* mark to the right of the tdc mark
What kind of timing light are you using? If you're tdc mark is right with your pulley, using a timing light with advance set at 32* will have your mark and pointer lined up and timed at 32*. Simple. Jatchis has about the same thing going on that I've done for years and that is when my pulley goes on, I make my own mark and pointer and I know it's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bangerhotrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bangerhotrod
OK, this really is weird, that 2 cars show to be off that much, and by about the same amount. There HAS to be something common, here.
By any chance, is it the same timing light you used the night the Red car ran out of fuel that you have used to set ignition timing each time? Have you tried another light?
edit: Never mind, I see where you already said you've tried 3 lights (reading IS fundamental, John ...).
I may have found the problem with the black car. I searched through some posts here and found something that reminded me of a thing I kind of passed off until I read it here. I have a DurasparkII in the Black car and the Red car has a TFI. I read where someone was having problems with timing just going on forever in their Dursspark, thats kind of what I had seen while timing the car at a recent test session so I ordered a new dist. That may be the problem I am having.
glad you may have found the issue...its not rocket science,just something overlooked.
i have always ran the esslinger pulley and never have i actually used the pulley marks for the timing light. the cog behind the pulley has a arrow on it for TDC. we mark the cog where the arrow is with the spacer behind it and it gives you a perfect mark for a light.
ok been havin trouble with the car not running right. 2.3 ford wont run unless the timing is around 70*, check the post esslinger pulley for all the info about it. i was checking things out and noticed that when the intake valve opens on the intake stroke it stays open past bdc and dont close completly till the piston is coming up on the compression stroke. and same for the ex valve it opens as the piston is coming up on the ex stroke and is still open at tdc and dont close completly till the piston is going down on the intake stroke. the cam is set up 3 deg adv, i thought about trying the cam at straight up with the stock cam gear but it seems that would make it even worse. im not sure about all this, that might be right but it dont look like thats right seems like the valve should be shut when the piston starts the other direction on a diff stroke.
thanks,
4bangerhotrod