Buying a used Bert

Looking at two, used Berts. Never owned one before. We shifted both of them. One (Bert A) would turn the tail shaft in low gear the other (Bert B) wouldn't but you could feel it trying to move it. Everything else worked though.

Bert B also appears to have shorter teeth in the input shaft. The other had deeper grooves almost like Bert B had worn down.

Both are priced the same. Everything else is pretty much the same and based on this info which one would be the better one? Can I tell anything by pulling the side covers off?

Buy a brinn and be done with it. Worth paying the extra 200-300 for the reliability.

the clutches in trans b could be worn, but there is realy no way to tell without taking it apart, the older berts had a problem with to much travel in the clutch servo and they made a spacer to correct this however i just added one extra clutch disc and steel and never had another problem. there all about the same, bert brin falcon , but i prefer the bert, IMO they are tougher

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by powerslide

Buy a brinn and be done with it. Worth paying the extra 200-300 for the reliability.

---

None around here to buy. Should have bought the $600 one I saw...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fastford

the clutches in trans b could be worn, but there is realy no way to tell without taking it apart, the older berts had a problem with to much travel in the clutch servo and they made a spacer to correct this however i just added one extra clutch disc and steel and never had another problem. there all about the same, bert brin falcon , but i prefer the bert, IMO they are tougher

---

Thanks. Gonna be difficult to make up my mind.

Take the one with the least amount of clutch drum travel.
Wedge a flat head screwdriver in between the flange in front of the idler shaft and the clutch drum and you should be able to pry the drum toward the front of the transmission (it's spring loaded). More than 1/4" is bad.
Based on what you've described I would say Tranny A is the one you want but as previously stated, there are too many unseen things that could be wrong.
When you turn the input shaft while in low gear, the output shaft should move but you should be able to stop it with your hand. If it doesn't move at all, then you have way too much disc clearance and the the clutch pack likely needs to be replaced. The travel test above will help confirm that.
A Bert is a perfectly good transmission when properly maintained.

Also, Trans A was pulled out of a running car. Don't know anything about "B" except it has a nicer appearance...but never judge a book by its cover kinda deal I'd say.

Going to probably pick "A" up today. Gonna pull the side cover off and try the screw driver thing also. I guess the worst thing is I do a rebuild which is still cheaper than buying new.

I was reading a rebuild article in Circle Track and they mentioned as long as the play is less than 11/44 inch it's good. Converting it...11/44 is a 1/4". Don't know why they just didn't put 1/4"...

Thanks for the help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merc123

Also, Trans A was pulled out of a running car. Don't know anything about "B" except it has a nicer appearance...but never judge a book by its cover kinda deal I'd say.

Going to probably pick "A" up today. Gonna pull the side cover off and try the screw driver thing also. I guess the worst thing is I do a rebuild which is still cheaper than buying new.

I was reading a rebuild article in Circle Track and they mentioned as long as the play is less than 11/44 inch it's good. Converting it...11/44 is a 1/4". Don't know why they just didn't put 1/4"...

Thanks for the help.

---

The article you are referring to has a lot of sketchy information in it (oversimplifications) but this particular incident is a typo. It says "between 31/416 and 11/44 inch". Somehow in the editing process the replaced "/" with "1/4". It should read "between 3/16 and 1/4 inch". Nobody measures in 416ths of an inch of 44ths of an inch.
The biggest flaw with the Circle Track article is that the fail to discuss any of the custom tools that you need to do the job properly. They also skip some steps but the point is they oversimplify. I'm not saying the rebuild is difficult but that article makes it look way easier than it is.
The video on Bert's website is probably a better demonstration if you ask me.

I rebuild berts.brinns and falcons and the brinn is by fare the best in my oppinion. when buying a used trany it is a must to pull the side cover off and look at the gears as you rotate the trany. even a badly chiped gear can fill good while turning. the biggest thing I see with the bert is the reverse gear worn or chipped once a gear chips it take out the other gears pretty quick. if the seller will not allow you to pull the side cover just walk away he's hiding something.

the bert video is helpful but even it only touches on the tools needed. once you install the new clutch plates and springs in the housing you have to reinstall that into the case with out the correct tools that is a pain the rest in pretty easy.

Well there was a different one they were willing to sell. It was better looking and feeling than the others. Got it home and when I went to turn it over for some reason something metal is in in the tailshaft housing and sliding back and forth when you flip the tranny. Didn't hear it when I was picking it up and moving it around.

Turns out it was the bushing. We got it out and put a new one in but it slid in pretty easy. I'm wondering if the hole got worn out and if it'll cause problems in the future.

If the new bushing went in easy, you have a problem, it will not stay in. The tail housing is worn. However, it can be repaired without buying a new tail housing. Use LocTite and drill and pin the new bushing with BRASS screws. I have fixed several this way. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, contact James Messamore at the old DWB race shop in Oliver Springs, Tn. He can take care of it.

i also build a lot of trans and i still prefer the bert jmo, i dont use any special tools other than a pair of long jawed vice grip clamps to compress clutch drum to put back in housing, also heres another trick i learned, the clutches and steels out of a 1982 honda civic automatic trans will work just fine, they will cost you about 12 dollars as apposed to a 100 from bert, also on the loose bushing problem if you can nurl the housing a little before installing it with green loctite it will help

Now I can't get the bushing back out... Stuck a dry yoke in it to try to get it to "pull" the bushing out but no luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by merc123

Now I can't get the bushing back out... Stuck a dry yoke in it to try to get it to "pull" the bushing out but no luck.

---

The bushing has a tendency to stick in the tail housing. I always tap it from the inside with a very long blade screwdriver but that obviously requires taking the tail housing off and removing the output shaft, bearing, etc. I've never had the need to remove one unless I had it completely apart so I'm not sure what the best way is otherwise.

May be able to use a pilot bearing puller.

you can rent or borrow a bushing puller from your local advance or auto zone tell them your swapping a bushing in a turbo 400 chevy, its simple to use

Thanks. Looks like I'll just drill and pin it. It would seem Bert would take a hint from Brinn's design. Maybe they did in the new ones.

They are very difficult to talk to on the phone. They speak French...took me a few transfers to get someone that speaks English. They did say there is no oversize bushing, maybe get one from a machine shop.

Set screws here I come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stock car driver

Anyone get their hands on a racegator yet? It appears to be a copy and parts are available already for it.

I can sell the racegator brand new shipped for $1200.

---

Read some good. Read some bad. The words that came to mind: "Cheap Chinese Junk" was the consensus. Get what you pay for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stock car driver

READ? Ive read that too, not from anyone who has touched one, just the experts on this forum speculating when they first came out on the market.

---

Got my money in the Bert already. If you'd be willing to sponsor one I'd be more than willing to test one out. The only guy I have found so far running them in a modified has won races with it. From the outside, it would appear he probably didn't have to pay for it and it was sponsored by one of the stickers on his car. Give it to me free then I'll run it. Comes out of my pocket, I'll play it safe and go with proven gear. A friend of mine has a Bert he bought used. He has ran it for 5 years and hasn't had to rebuild yet. What about Racegators?

I agree about mark up. I can buy an AFCO ball joint for $54 or a Moog for $30. Funny thing is the AFCO is stamped with Moog part numbers.

It's all about "racing" components. I saved more money when I realized that if I can find the regular equivalent to a "racing part" company like AFCO or Allstar, then I will.

Anyone compare the internals of a racegator to a Bert/Brinn? Is the clutch material the same or better? Is it welded differently? Are the gears heat treated or coated differently? Mark up is one thing, but inferior parts is another. Is it truely markup on Bert/Brinn's part or is it they truely have better parts.

I'll give you an example. There's a guy that builds bullet proof transmissions for Powerstrokes. $4500 is the cost of one. IF you kill it and it's not neglect (overheat, no fluid) bring it back and he will fix it for free. I get one rebuilt for $2500. Do I spend the extra $2k for bulletproof or risk the bad OEM design? The $4500 is more appealing for a transmission that will outlast the truck as opposed to having to spend another $2000 to get it rebuilt again in 150k miles. Does he use better parts? Yes. Does he change things within the transmission to make it a higher cost? Yes. It's not mark up in this case, it's a truely different transmission.