Hartford (MI) Speedway - Going from a 1/2 mile to a 3/8's mile. Pictures.............

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

Loved the ARCA cars .. Loved the late Models, But they are just not made to run a 1 mile track....Not safe
Just like the USAC Sprints Love them, But I love the WoO Sprints, But they just were not made too run on a 1 mile track... Bob Sarge will run them on the Mile till they dont let him no more... Would love too see a 1/4 track on the inside of the Mile at Springfield

---

Gary, you're right, the ARCA cars put on a great show on the mile dirt tracks and they are built to safely withstand impacts going the speeds they attain at the mile dirt tracks. Also, the USAC Silver Crown cars are relatively safe on the mile's, as well. The sprint cars, winged or wingless, the midgets, the late models, the mortified's and the sportsman cars really aren't suited for the speeds attainable on the mile's. A buddy of mine that was a multi time dirt late model track champion loved to race on the mile's. We had to do a lot of special riveting and bracing to hold the sheet metal in place on his late model in preparation for a mile race. As much as he loved racing on the mile tracks he admitted that the mile's were too fast for the DLM's.

I was at Springfield the day Danny Drinan wrecked getting into turn 3 during the USAC National Midget show that was the support show for the Silver Crown Bettenhausen Memorial. That was one of the most frightening crashes I've ever witnessed in person. Danny nearly died but thankfully he pulled through and healed up to race another day. I think they ran the midgets at Springfield once after that and I hope they never race them at Springfield again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

Gary, you're right, the ARCA cars put on a great show on the mile dirt tracks and they are built to safely withstand impacts going the speeds they attain at the mile dirt tracks. Also, the USAC Silver Crown cars are relatively safe on the mile's, as well. The sprint cars, winged or wingless, the midgets, the late models, the mortified's and the sportsman cars really aren't suited for the speeds attainable on the mile's. A buddy of mine that was a multi time dirt late model track champion loved to race on the mile's. We had to do a lot of special riveting and bracing to hold the sheet metal in place on his late model in preparation for a mile race. As much as he loved racing on the mile tracks he admitted that the mile's were too fast for the DLM's.

I was at Springfield the day Danny Drinan wrecked getting into turn 3 during the USAC National Midget show that was the support show for the Silver Crown Bettenhausen Memorial. That was one of the most frightening crashes I've ever witnessed in person. Danny nearly died but thankfully he pulled through and healed up to race another day. I think they ran the midgets at Springfield once after that and I hope they never race them at Springfield again.

---

Have been to 2 of the midgets shows and they were great but in the back of my mind was someone was going to die some day ..Was not at the one Danny crashed but a friend said he did not think some one would have live when he crashed...Said it was the worst crash he had ever seen....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

I fully understand the reasoning behind the closures and these moves the half mile tracks are making to the smaller tracks. It's just business and survival. But dirt racing dies just a little bit every time a historical, big sweeping half mile is bulldozed and replaced by a bull ring or closes altogether. Racetracks are casualties of ever rising costs just as racers are these days.

There are only 3 one mile dirt tracks that are used for auto racing left in existence after the demolition of Syracuse and it appears the 1/2 miles are headed in that same direction. Only Knoxville, Eldora and Perris out in Cali are thriving or at the very least holding their own. Terre Haute is managing to keep the doors open for a few specials throughout the season but periodically there is talk of it possibly biting the dust. Belleville is just surviving and Volusia Speedway Park has ceased weekly operation with February Speedweeks being the only racing activity there unless something changes.

We've seen Owattanna, Freeport, Farley, Granite City, Pecotonica and now the Hartford 1/2 mile either cease operation or be completely razed into oblivion. It's one of those deals where we all know why this is happening and it's better to do what it takes to keep tracks in existence than to have them close for good, but it's a little sad, too.

---

The part I bolded might be one of the best things I've ever read on 4M.

Having grown up in the dust of half-miles and always residing in a state where half-miles were the norm, I can appreciate your heartfelt comment.

Pa. still has five big tracks of very historic importance operating today. Port Royal, Selinsgrove and Williams Grove - all three in different stages of success or decline depending on what you read, what you believe and the always-scarce hard data in the accounting books. Nonetheless, neither of the three are in serious jeopardy of closing and I can't thinking of any closures in their storied historys. All within the 60+ year mark of operations.

Tri-City Speedway in Franklin Pa. and Bedford Speedway in Bedford Pa. are still wearing their big surfaces, too. Bedford is very historic and has gone through some highs and lows but seems to keep cars on the track, Tri City has gone through some rough patches and did lay dormant for a spell. To say if Tri City is 'healthy', I can not.

The state of half miles in Pa. is always on the fringe in today's economy and declining fan base but what we have left seems to open their gates the next year just like the robins arrive in spring and the geese leave in fall. And yep, you won't see any new ones built. Scarce, indeed.

The half-mile in my back yard tried the 3/8ths downsize. Likely several contributing factors led to its closure of that experiment. Ironically, the Hartford pictures are nearly identical to what Clearfield Speedway did. I know from experience leaving the sharp dropback off of 1 & 2 was a nightmare for our track. It really needed backfilled to original 1 & 2 turns. We took a perfectly good half mile track and and made it one of the most dangerous tracks in the state for the few years it ran :(

I hope it all works out for Hartford. Build it and they will come is a tough business model. I hope they have the cars counts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

Have been to 2 of the midgets shows and they were great but in the back of my mind was someone was going to die some day ..Was not at the one Danny crashed but a friend said he did not think some one would have live when he crashed...Said it was the worst crash he had ever seen....

---

Gary, the same day as Danny Drinan's near fatal crash at Springfield another driver, who's name escapes me now, flipped completely out of Springfield. He was lucky, he got a broken wrist out of that deal and the car actually wasn't torn up all that bad considering. Had Danny gone out of the track where he crashed he might would have dropped all the way to the bottom of the infield tunnel between 3 & 4. Scary stuff!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PennDirt

The part I bolded might be one of the best things I've ever read on 4M.

Having grown up in the dust of half-miles and always residing in a state where half-miles were the norm, I can appreciate your heartfelt comment.

---

Thank you PennDirt. We appreciate the kind words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PennDirt

Pa. still has five big tracks of very historic importance operating today. Port Royal, Selinsgrove and Williams Grove - all three in different stages of success or decline depending on what you read, what you believe and the always-scarce hard data in the accounting books. Nonetheless, neither of the three are in serious jeopardy of closing and I can't thinking of any closures in their storied historys. All within the 60+ year mark of operations.

Tri-City Speedway in Franklin Pa. and Bedford Speedway in Bedford Pa. are still wearing their big surfaces, too. Bedford is very historic and has gone through some highs and lows but seems to keep cars on the track, Tri City has gone through some rough patches and did lay dormant for a spell. To say if Tri City is 'healthy', I can not.

The state of half miles in Pa. is always on the fringe in today's economy and declining fan base but what we have left seems to open their gates the next year just like the robins arrive in spring and the geese leave in fall. And yep, you won't see any new ones built. Scarce, indeed.

The half-mile in my back yard tried the 3/8ths downsize. Likely several contributing factors led to its closure of that experiment. Ironically, the Hartford pictures are nearly identical to what Clearfield Speedway did. I know from experience leaving the sharp dropback off of 1 & 2 was a nightmare for our track. It really needed backfilled to original 1 & 2 turns. We took a perfectly good half mile track and and made it one of the most dangerous tracks in the state for the few years it ran :(

I hope it all works out for Hartford. Build it and they will come is a tough business model. I hope they have the cars counts.

---

I'm not all that familiar with your racing landscape in the Keystone State other than Williams Grove is a very cool track and a hard core winged sprint car venue. Thanks for the brief insight.

I too, wish nothing but robust success for Hartford, and any other track that opts to downsize the racing surface. It doesn't matter how many 1/2 miles there are if no one can make money promoting them and the racers can't afford to race on them. If money can be made and tracks can be sustained by making bull rings of 1/2 miles then so be it. Best of luck to Hartford going forward.

I've never been there but I think PPMS is also a big track, might even be larger than 1/2 mile. Also Hagerstown, Virginia Motor Speedway, Georgetown, Delaware International Speedway and Bridgeport NJ are big 1/2 mile or bigger tracks too. I think there are a few tracks in the NC area that are 1/2 mile also.

Those are all nice tracks of course, but I'm personally a fan of the 3/8 and smaller tracks. Potomac, Path Valley, Winchester, Lincoln, etc. are my favorites in the area. Would love to go to some tracks like FALS or Belle Clair in IL.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Will One good thing on Trump we dont have to worry about the green people stopping racing...I know when i drive by the Old Champign motor speedway you can still see turn 1 and turn 2 The front where the stands were.. And i miss the racing there it was a great 1/2 mile and one sweet 1/4 mile tracks..It was doomed when the first owner went belly up and the people that were owed money came after the new owners...They just said they got tired of the people that they owed not a thing too that went nuts when the courts said thats all you get...They use too get 250 cars for the Sprint and 200 or more cars for dirt late model N that they held there in the fall.... I lived that place cause it was 4 miles from my House.. Use to run over there on my dirt bike cause it was easy too park.. But the ride home with a flash lite taped too the H bars $ucked on the way home... LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by W2Racing09

I've never been there but I think PPMS is also a big track, might even be larger than 1/2 mile. Also Hagerstown, Virginia Motor Speedway, Georgetown, Delaware International Speedway and Bridgeport NJ are big 1/2 mile or bigger tracks too. I think there are a few tracks in the NC area that are 1/2 mile also.

Those are all nice tracks of course, but I'm personally a fan of the 3/8 and smaller tracks. Potomac, Path Valley, Winchester, Lincoln, etc. are my favorites in the area. Would love to go to some tracks like FALS or Belle Clair in IL.

Thanks,
Jeff.

---

One track you need too make to befor you die Is FALS you have a 90% change of seeing a great race ,,,,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by W2Racing09

I've never been there but I think PPMS is also a big track, might even be larger than 1/2 mile.

---

I intentionally omitted Pittsburgh. I was still under the impression the track was sold and being closed. The last I read it was really happening this time. I see, as of today, new clay is settling and a 2017 schedule is in the works. My bad, I don't cruise racestud.com at all anymore. A true homebase for PPMS haters to cluster. That and Miley shenanigans are always hard to separate from fact and fiction.

Of all (now) six notable Pa speed plants, I'd have to say PPMS is the most ominous in size and banking. It's like the builder said "Let's build a half mile track with extra big balls".

Our family lost interest in PPMS after the MACS demise. It turned out that UFO races just no longer made the high-price tickets, long drive and run-down facility worth the hassle. I will admit, seeing the old STARS and MACS races were great memories and the All Star Sprints were absolutely scary to watch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

Will One good thing on Trump we dont have to worry about the green people stopping racing...I know when i drive by the Old Champign motor speedway you can still see turn 1 and turn 2 The front where the stands were.. And i miss the racing there it was a great 1/2 mile and one sweet 1/4 mile tracks..It was doomed when the first owner went belly up and the people that were owed money came after the new owners...They just said they got tired of the people that they owed not a thing too that went nuts when the courts said thats all you get...They use too get 250 cars for the Sprint and 200 or more cars for dirt late model N that they held there in the fall.... I lived that place cause it was 4 miles from my House.. Use to run over there on my dirt bike cause it was easy too park.. But the ride home with a flash lite taped too the H bars $ucked on the way home... LOL

---

Is the track you speak of near Fisher, IL? If it is I was never there. It was just a bit before my time but I've heard plenty about the place from some of the older guys. I went by it often on my way home and back to Urbana-Champaign on some weekends and holidays during my college years. At that time I was distracted from racing by the young coeds and the search for where the next keg party would be held, in that order!! LOL!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by W2Racing09

I've never been there but I think PPMS is also a big track, might even be larger than 1/2 mile. Also Hagerstown, Virginia Motor Speedway, Georgetown, Delaware International Speedway and Bridgeport NJ are big 1/2 mile or bigger tracks too. I think there are a few tracks in the NC area that are 1/2 mile also.

Those are all nice tracks of course, but I'm personally a fan of the 3/8 and smaller tracks. Potomac, Path Valley, Winchester, Lincoln, etc. are my favorites in the area. Would love to go to some tracks like FALS or Belle Clair in IL.

Thanks,
Jeff.

---

A couple of other tracks in Illinois and Indiana that you should make an appoint to see racing are Mighty Macon in Illinois and especially Kokomo, Indiana!! Kokomo is definitely on a par with FALS in regards to a must see status!! I'd put Kokomo up against any weekly track in the country including FALS and that's sayin' something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

Is the track you speak of near Fisher, IL? If it is I was never there. It was just a bit before my time but I've heard plenty about the place from some of the older guys. I went by it often on my way home and back to Urbana-Champaign on some weekends and holidays during my college years. At that time I was distracted from racing by the young coeds and the search for where the next keg party would be held, in that order!! LOL!



A couple of other tracks in Illinois and Indiana that you should make an appoint to see racing are Mighty Macon in Illinois and especially Kokomo, Indiana!! Kokomo is definitely on a par with FALS in regards to a must see status!! I'd put Kokomo up against any weekly track in the country including FALS and that's sayin' something.

---

I can definitely see myself needing to make a trip to Macon at some point. That track looks great! Kokomo, of course is on everyone bucket list I think -- I'm sure at some point I will make it out there. I just can't take an interest in the Wingless cars, I used to think I would like them better than Winged Sprints but the more I start to watch Sprint racing the less I like the Wingless version(s). I've seen some awesome (Loudpedal) videos of Indiana Sprint Week though, and videos from Kokomo so I'm sure I'll make it there at some point.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Just an encouraging thought: Sharon Speedway successfully went to 3/8ths from its half mile size. There has to be other success stories out there, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

Is the track you speak of near Fisher, IL? If it is I was never there. It was just a bit before my time but I've heard plenty about the place from some of the older guys. I went by it often on my way home and back to Urbana-Champaign on some weekends and holidays during my college years. At that time I was distracted from racing by the young coeds and the search for where the next keg party would be held, in that order!! LOL!



A couple of other tracks in Illinois and Indiana that you should make an appoint to see racing are Mighty Macon in Illinois and especially Kokomo, Indiana!! Kokomo is definitely on a par with FALS in regards to a must see status!! I'd put Kokomo up against any weekly track in the country including FALS and that's sayin' something.

---

It was on the Dewey Fisher road 4 miles out of champaign.. right in the middle of the s turns between champaign and rt 136
PS Red Lion Inn... REO Speed Wagon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

PS Red Lion Inn... REO Speed Wagon

---

Chances R Bar.....Head East
Red Herring Coffee House....Dan Fogelberg
Brown Jug....Duke Tumatoe and the All Star Frogs


Ahhhhh, what a great time to have been young and in a Midwest rock & roll hot spot!! DAM the midterms!! Let's go to the Red Lion!!!! LOL!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

It was on the Dewey Fisher road 4 miles out of champaign.. right in the middle of the s turns between champaign and rt 136
PS Red Lion Inn... REO Speed Wagon

---

Track located at 40° 13.227'N 88° 17.078'W. If you set your Google Earth time machine back to 1994 you can see the outline of the track a little more clearly.

(RIP Gary Richrath)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

Chances R Bar.....Head East
Red Herring Coffee House....Dan Fogelberg
Brown Jug....Duke Tumatoe and the All Star Frogs


Ahhhhh, what a great time to have been young and in a Midwest rock & roll hot spot!! DAM the midterms!! Let's go to the Red Lion!!!! LOL!!

---

Man there is a good change we had a drink in the same bar more then once ...LOL
The Frogs one of the Best bands that did not make it Big...Good Friends with most of them bands.. Know all the guys in the Frogs and Head East and REO... Terry Lettrel was the lead singer back then and went out with my niece......REO had a House on Campus,,, Passed out there lots of nights....

You can still see the 1/4 and 1/2 mile now on a live shot....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cardirt0

Man there is a good change we had a drink in the same bar more then once ...LOL
The Frogs one of the Best bands that did not make it Big...Good Friends with most of them bands.. Know all the guys in the Frogs and Head East and REO... Terry Lettrel was the lead singer back then and went out with my niece......REO had a House on Campus,,, Passed out there lots of nights....

---

Gary, I'd bet good money we were in the same campus town bars at the same time back in the day!

U-C was a hotbed of rock music in those day.

I knew a young lady who attended Parkland back in those days and she did some baby sitting for a couple of the members of REO Speedwagon while they were out doing gig's. Had a beer or two with those guys during that time period.

The Red Lion Inn, Second Chance and Papa Del's Pizza were a short walk from each other and it's a dam good thing. Papa Del's is, to this day, the best campus town pizza.

Second Chance was the best of the campus town bars that didn't feature live music. Fun place. They must have lost $1500 worth of drink glasses every weekend. Everybody walked out with a drink in their hand. It was sad when that place was gutted by fire. I almost cried!! LOLOL!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PennDirt

I intentionally omitted Pittsburgh. I was still under the impression the track was sold and being closed. The last I read it was really happening this time. I see, as of today, new clay is settling and a 2017 schedule is in the works. My bad, I don't cruise racestud.com at all anymore. A true homebase for PPMS haters to cluster. That and Miley shenanigans are always hard to separate from fact and fiction.

Of all (now) six notable Pa speed plants, I'd have to say PPMS is the most ominous in size and banking. It's like the builder said "Let's build a half mile track with extra big balls".

Our family lost interest in PPMS after the MACS demise. It turned out that UFO races just no longer made the high-price tickets, long drive and run-down facility worth the hassle. I will admit, seeing the old STARS and MACS races were great memories and the All Star Sprints were absolutely scary to watch.

---

It's not sold, and it's certainly not closing. The 2017 schedule is already out and the Mileys have re-clayed the place and are in the process of doing some other improvements to the facility, which leads me to believe 2018 and beyond will have schedules, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CIRF

Gary, I'd bet good money we were in the same campus town bars at the same time back in the day!

U-C was a hotbed of rock music in those day.

I knew a young lady who attended Parkland back in those days and she did some baby sitting for a couple of the members of REO Speedwagon while they were out doing gig's. Had a beer or two with those guys during that time period.

The Red Lion Inn, Second Chance and Papa Del's Pizza were a short walk from each other and it's a dam good thing. Papa Del's is, to this day, the best campus town pizza.

Second Chance was the best of the campus town bars that didn't feature live music. Fun place. They must have lost $1500 worth of drink glasses every weekend. Everybody walked out with a drink in their hand. It was sad when that place was gutted by fire. I almost cried!! LOLOL!!

---

Garces pizza in the red Lion you could order the a slice not on the menu and you get 2 joints with it LOL
The the REO guys were a lot of fun to party with He!! we may have know each other LOL
I think Second Chance was were they stared the Cup too go when they put someone at the front door and made you put it in a cup.... LOL
Second Chance is gone say it was burned because a lot of Gays went there... Red Lion is still there....
Chances R Bar turned in too a Gay bar...Its called Chester street now...

Funny story about Chances R. Not long after I graduated we started going down to an Illini football game every year, and we still do. Anyway, we always took dates down to the FB games and had been in CR the year before but didn't know it had gone alternative. If you remember there was a gazebo type platform built up about 2' above the floor just inside the door and that was where you paid the cover charge. The bouncer that was taking money had to tell us 3 times that the 4 of us didn't want to go in. Finally we figured out what was going on and high tailed it out of there. I almost cried, again!!

CR was the best rock and roll bar I've ever been in to this day. We loved to go up to the second balcony that overlooked the stage and dance floor and set up there. Ya' had to get there early to get a seat up there but it was worth it!!

The Red Lion in Bloomington, IL was a very cool place, too. That place also had a balcony that overlooked the stage and dance floor. I had some close friends that went to ISU and that place was the hot spot for our crowd in Bloomington for a long time. I actually liked the Bloomington Red Lion better than the one in Urbana-Champaign but the bands were better at the U-C Lion.

Ahhhhh, to be that young again!! LOL!!