Bobby Pierce on twitter - HELP Cost Limit engine size to 415 - 420. Link.

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Originally Posted by Illtsate32

Could somebody translate???

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Bla Bla Bla Bla does that help

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

I have always liked them for what they were and are at the time. Except for the first couple of years that UMP was created. I still remember Bob Memmer giving his UMP dictatorial speech at Barren County. "we are organized, blah blah blah......... lol Bob loved that place, but I think they told him not to do that anymore.

And the window had to be big enough on the cars for Bob to get in and out of himself. :) Lee Hoffman type cars did not appeal to me.

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Bob saved the sport, like him or not.

Something to think about, with something like a Cubic inch rule:

1. You are going to cost the teams a ton of money to switch engine over.
2. Is this going to bring in more people (move up a class, start racing LM's again) then it might drive a few teams out due to having to redo the engines they have?
3. Would for sure need an RPM rule with the smaller engines or it will get just as carried away as it is now.


Sure a guy could do this over time, by adding a weight penalty to the larger engines for a while to allow guys when they need to replace cranks to convert over to the smaller CID's. There isn't a simple answer to this as most things are going to have/cause other issues that will need to be dealt with.

I'm still for unhooking the cars with taking the aero away and harder tires, this is the first place to go IMO. No one can say for sure if it will make racing better or not, but you can always adjust things if it makes it worse. A guy could argue that the overly soft tires at Eldora makes racing interesting and causes drama with tires going away, so just a hard tire may not be the answer either.

It's just not that cut and dry on many of these things, but something needs to be done.

I also remember when you used to be able to race anywhere with the same basic rules, now every place has different tires you need to use. I know many don't go some places just because they don't want to buy tires for just one race. Why do we have so many tires basically the same (55, 40, 1600)

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Originally Posted by Kromulous

Wide Bores allow bigger pistions, in turn more cubes. A 450 Wide Bore is a 430 Std, same stroke and rod, bigger piston.

You could mandate a spec block and head and let them go wild from there?

Spec motor with a weight break? like USMTS does?

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Or a Fat short hole thats 40% more likely to break

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Originally Posted by bb14

Limiting piston speed would be a key to engine rules. Let them have 430+ but mandate the length of the rod. Remember these are supers.

This does away with the high revving motors and prolongs rebuilds due to the lesser piston speed. Not a really smart engine guy but wouldn't this nullify the advantage of the wide bores? Wider bores with shorter strokes =higher revs. Isn't this why everyone wants a wide bore?

Regardless taking away spoilers will not help. You definitely need to bring in the nose a foot or so and eliminate the splitter protrusion. The technology is out of the genie bottle. You can't put it back in regardless of what peopl on here think.

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Piston speed is a function of stroke and rpm. Rod length changes geometry, so no effect on ultimate piston speed.

I guess I should correct myself. Ultimate acceleration isn't effected by rod length. Top piston speed will be altered by maybe 1%.

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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer

Bob saved the sport, like him or not.

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Well he changed it for sure for some time. Now what is UMP all about?

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

Well he changed it for sure for some time. Now what is UMP all about?

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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

Well he changed it for sure for some time. Now what is UMP all about?

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It is a joke now. Not his fault. We need a new Bob.

Why not run 1.25 carb spacer , 8000 chip Only 40 s with punch test. Engine size whatever

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Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer

It is a joke now. Not his fault. We need a new Bob.

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He meant well. Once someone cut his beloved dog with a knife at a racetrack in Kentucky while he was working and it died. He left it in the car or van and someone got to it. How horrible can you be? I'll never forget that.

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

He meant well. Once someone cut his beloved dog with a knife at a racetrack in Kentucky while he was working and it died. He left it in the car or van and someone got to it. How horrible can you be? I'll never forget that.

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He more than meant well. Wedge cars nearly ended it

Hard tires will bring out every dime store "chemical engineer"!

That wouldn't be all bad.....I know a guy! :)

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Originally Posted by bb14

Limiting piston speed would be a key to engine rules. Let them have 430+ but mandate the length of the rod. Remember these are supers.

This does away with the high revving motors and prolongs rebuilds due to the lesser piston speed. Not a really smart engine guy but wouldn't this nullify the advantage of the wide bores? Wider bores with shorter strokes =higher revs. Isn't this why everyone wants a wide bore?

Regardless taking away spoilers will not help. You definitely need to bring in the nose a foot or so and eliminate the splitter protrusion. The technology is out of the genie bottle. You can't put it back in regardless of what peopl on here think.

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They eliminated the wedge car even though the aero was out of the bottle. And sure the argument is that the wedge cars are back; but that was because of weak officiating and it took 25 or 30 years to get back here.

You can outlaw some of the tricks, and new ones based on old will pop up; but sometimes you have to scrap it and start again. The cars cost too much, the engines cost too much, time for some major consideration.

Tracks that used to have a weekly class of 30-40 late models now get in the mid teens. 238 late models would got to Eldora, now only 99 showed up in shape to race.

In a perfect world where money was no issue we could just stand by and see who keeps making the mouse trap better. But because money is most certainly an issue we need to make the mouse trap simpler in the name of good competition and survival.

Sprint cars haven't grown overly complicated in the last 20 years, and they have cycles certainly, but I think we can see where they are maintaining and maybe slowly up-ticking, while Late Model class is getting smaller and smaller; and a little less fun as we no longer have the home track heroes that can put a real fight to the tour invaders.

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Originally Posted by Clayton_Wetter

He meant well. Once someone cut his beloved dog with a knife at a racetrack in Kentucky while he was working and it died. He left it in the car or van and someone got to it. How horrible can you be? I'll never forget that.

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That’s messed up Clayton. Chicken crap

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Originally Posted by Illtsate32

CnB ya those guys will still be up front, but so will other drivers who absolutely have no chance to the way things are now...

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It’ll be all the same people I mentioned plus Bobby and a couple others. The rules aren’t going to change whose at the front. Everyone wants passing points and no qualifying, guess who is still at the front, the same people.

Don’t get me wrong, it surely needs to change. Knock some spoiler off, hard tires they check, get the bodies in check, and go from there. Start with things you can tech pretty easy and go from there. And enforce the rule book.

^^^^^Agreed...

When they killed his Dog that was a Sad Day

In my opinion, this is not a well thought out idea. Making the engines smaller in displacement is NOT going to make them cheaper or more reliable. They will only wind them higher. All else being equal, a little motor can make as much power as a bigger motor, if you can wind it higher. If all you do is reduce the displacement, this is exactly what they will do. They will start pushing the RPMs higher and this will result in a more expensive and less reliaible engine.

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Not sure what this will accomplish. NASCAR engines are 358 cubic inches and have just as much power as our stuff.. only difference is Nascar engines are way MORE expensive

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Bingo! And look at the RPMs they are turning those engines are turning. There's a connection there.

If anything, maybe the answer is to go the other way. How much do the Big Block modified engines cost? How long do they run them between rebuilds? Maybe the solution is to go bigger and turn less RPM. Bigger engines would have more torque, so you'd run a higher gear in the rear end and turn less RPMs.

Back in the mid seventies many late models had a 454 big block. I never heard the RPM get real high on them and they could last a long time.

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Originally Posted by Stefan2k4

In my opinion, this is not a well thought out idea. Making the engines smaller in displacement is NOT going to make them cheaper or more reliable. They will only wind them higher. All else being equal, a little motor can make as much power as a bigger motor, if you can wind it higher. If all you do is reduce the displacement, this is exactly what they will do. They will start pushing the RPMs higher and this will result in a more expensive and less reliaible engine.



Bingo! And look at the RPMs they are turning those engines are turning. There's a connection there.

If anything, maybe the answer is to go the other way. How much do the Big Block modified engines cost? How long do they run them between rebuilds? Maybe the solution is to go bigger and turn less RPM. Bigger engines would have more torque, so you'd run a higher gear in the rear end and turn less RPMs.

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Big block mods use a steel block and aluminum heads, and are around the same cost as a mid level late model motor. Sure, you don’t twist ‘em as hard and they go longer in between rebuilds, but there wouldn’t be any significant savings. True big block mods are on the decline and they’re exploring lower cost options too.