Printable View
Whats the difference in payout between the top touring series in both of these brands of racing. I know that the Lucas Oil series usually runs a regular points show for 12K to win and the Woo lates usually runs for 10K but what do the ASCOC and the WOO sprints run for usually
Ascoc is 5000with some 10s, WoO is typically 10
The payout with woo sprints is about the same except for the fact that the sprints run a lot more races than the late models both run special races that pay more but it seems like the sprints draw bigger crowds.
Which I have yet to figure out why they have more fans. Most of the time it is follow the leader, not a lot of passing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 wide
Hate to say it but in this day there are about as many passes for the lead in winged sprint cars as there are in lates.
Sprints have more specials, they do quite a few 2 day races with 6k Friday and 20 SaturdayQuote:
Originally Posted by 3 wide
Our local track pays 410’s 2.5 times the standard payout for late models. It has always been a sprint car track and also runs 305’s. When the late models run last it’s usually in front of crew, family & friends. Most of the crowd has left after the sprinters are done.
I think some of it is the nascar connection while some of it is just the pure speed they produce. You can no nothing about racing and still be impressed by how fast they drive by you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAddDirt
Knoxville Sprint Nationals Saturday payout. These numbers are amazing.
E Main:
1. $600 2. $600 3. $600 4. $600 5. $800
6. $775 7. $750 8. $725 9. $700 10. $675
11. $650 12. $625 13. $600 14. $575 15. $550
16. $475 17. $450 18. $425 19. $400 20. $375
21. $350 22. $325
D Main:
1. $800 2. $800 3. $800 4. $800 5. $1,200
6. $1,100 7. $1,000 8. $950 9. $900 10. $850
11. $825 12. $800 13. $800 14. $800 15. $800
16. $800 17. $800 18. $800 19. $800 20. $800
21. $800 22. $800 23. $800 24. $800
C Main:
1. $1,000 2. $1,000 3. $1,000 4. $1,000 5. $2,000
6. $1,750 7. $1,500 8. $1,400 9. $1,300 10. $1,250 11. $1,225 12. $1,200 13. $1,175 14. $1,150 15. $1,125 16. $1,100 17. $1,050 18. $1,000 19. $950 20. $900
21. $850 22. $825 23. $825 24. $825
B Main:
1. $1,000 2. $1,000 3. $1,000 4. $1,000 5. $8,000
6. $7,000 7. $6,000 8. $5,000 9. $4,000 10. $3,500 11. $3,000 12. $2,500 13. $2,250 14. $2,000 15. $1,750 16. $1,500 17. $1,450 18. $1,400 19. $1,350 20. $1,300
21. $1,250 22. $1,200 23. $1,150 24. $1,100
Championship A Main:
1. $150,000 2. $75,000 3. $37,500 4. $26,000
5. $21,000 6. $20,000 7. $19,000 8. $18,000
9. $17,000 10. $16,000 11. $15,000 12. $14,000
13. $13,000 14. $12,000 15. $11,000 16. $10,500
17. $10,000 18. $10,000 19. $10,000 20. $10,000
21. $10,000 22. $10,000 23. $10,000 24. $10,000
TOTAL PURSE: $957,320
If not more; WoO and All*Stars neither one have a heads up format like Lucas; even WoO Lates with redraw doesn't seem to be pass happy. Which brings me to my next pointQuote:
Originally Posted by kazual
Once the leaders get into lapped traffic you see really good racing any more in the sprints. But the heat races are absolutely follow the leader affairs except at the smallest bull rings. BUT (again) anymore, late model heat races look like a a sprint car heat race with heads up formats, more aero dependence, and lower car counts (less cars in a heat race to race one another.)Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAddDirt
Knoxville has already announced $50,000 in added money for leading laps in the feature ($1K per lap) for 2020, which if the rest of the purse stays the same {which I expect at the least} the Knoxville Nationals will be the first dirt race to pay a $1million dollar purse in a decade. (A real $Million)Quote:
Originally Posted by waaac77
Sprint cars as far as popularity and fans being energized may be the highest of any division in motorsports period right now. I think it has to do with the respect for the cars; big power, low weight, big sound; the spectacle of speed; pretty decent feature races; and incredible marketing that is taking advantage of the NASCAR connection and making converts, but also just taking advantage of how much dirt fans love dirt racing.
Late Model racing is behind on the hype train. But when you look at big events; Late Models still race for bigger purses more often and still draw more cars generally speaking. WRG/Dirtvision are always going to favor the chosen child; if Late Models are going to grow it sits in Lucas Oil's lap I believe.
It would be cool to see Eldora match that payout for a Late Model show. Yes I know they had the Million; but I’m talking this specific type of payout. Or let’s say the winners payout for the World stays the same but they pad the back end of the payout in a huge way like this and do a alphabet soup of consi’s and then he BIG show. I’d bet car count goes up a good buy because drivers realize they have a chance to make a decent buck.Quote:
Originally Posted by waaac77
Nathan, you might be correct but Eldora laps are really hard on an engine. Local guys might be able to afford a refresh but not a complete engine rebuild or a new engine. I really think today’s Eldora format is difficult for local guys because of the number of racing laps required.
I have to agree on the Eldora late model shows I think by adding all of the extra features on Thursday and Friday has really hurt
I think youre right. It's kind of a catch 22. Nice for us fans to have extra nights of racing but it costs the teams a lot of money. Then throw in double heats, that don't help the cost as well. I don't think they do double heats at Eldora but just in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by golddirt
Interesting. I wonder if these big late model show paid say 500 a lead lap, it would change the race completely...which raises the question could promoters maybe increase or say make the racing better by adding different incentives?...
Sprint cars are just so fast and the racing feels more tense because it feels more dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAddDirt
Coming from someone that grew up and lives in Eastern Iowa, I was always a late model fan first. Saw my first 410 winged sprint car race at Knoxville a little more than 10 years ago. I would say over the last two or three years, I found myself attending as many or more sprint car shows than late models. The big thing for me is the speed difference. Other things that appeal is the level of danger raises the intensity from a fan standpoint, the cars are cool looking, etc... With that said, I still consider myself a big fan of late models too. Looking forward to attending the three nights in Knoxville a couple weeks from now.
Put starters on the sprint cars and i will come...
Never thought about the sprint vs late model engine angle, but it stands to reason the sprint car guys have lower engine costs because they’re turning less laps on them at big paying shows. Those midget gas tanks and push trucks help keep the costs down.
I bet 410 guys are spending more on motors that the national late model guys are. Those 410 motors don’t last very long before they need a rebuild and even a 305 motor is close to $20,000. The USAC midget guys are using $50,000 four cylinder engines.
Sprint Cars take less time to realign themselves during cautions, have a lot less drivers going into theQuote:
Originally Posted by highgroove
hot pit during cautions, etc., etc. compared to late models so for the few times that there is a flip during a race and the sprint cars needing to be push started does not really interfere in any time being wasted during a race.
I will agree that there is a lot of follow the leader sprint races during the heats, but during the feature there is a lot more action than late models, esp. when they hit lap traffic.
Also when the WoO Sprints do the 4 a breast, they get into formation immediately, do 1 lap and go green the next lap unless smoke needs to be cleared from fireworks compared to late models taking at least 5 laps to get into formation then having the 4 a breast and starting the race, plus in that time they cannot get into a formation as nice as the sprints.
but u leaving out the usac sprints that have very different formats yet and draw a good many sprint cars and have a big race fan base probably one of the biggest.
The payouts for winged sprints is a whole lot better for weekly shows. Also looks at Knoxville nationals, the 1st car to miss feature wins 8000 dollars plus what ever he won if he ran the c,d or e. I personally enjoy non-wing much more than winged. Most winged sprint car fans have to respect for other classes, they leave after sprint cars, foolish if you ask me. But winged sprint car racing has a rabid and huge fan base, especially on a local level. Sprint car racing has a much larger corporate sponsorship.
When you go to a big World of Outlaws sprint race, half of the fanbase will have local drivers shirts on and the locals have a very good shot at winning or placing very high. Late model racing use to have a large local racing fan base, thats gone, if you go to a big race, world, dream, north-south, knoxville nationals you see little if any support for the local drivers if any, 90% of the shirts and support is for Bloomquist, Pierce, Davenport, or Owens. Western Pa has huge support for their locals, Attica and Knoxville has the same.
Top 410 sprint motors are 60k+. They're more expensive than super late motors, though not by much. The do require more frequent rebuilds though, because winged sprints twist them way harder way than a super late does.
Speaking of weekly pay, the weekly pay for Knoxville probably rivals most regional tours. Weekly 410 features pay $4,000 to win, $1,500 for 360 wins, and $600 to win a 305 feature. The payouts go up for mid-season and season championship nights.
I can't find information on the current points fund, but the last I knew it was a million dollars paid out across the three classes. It was sponsored by Lucas Oil at that time.
https://www.knoxvilleraceway.com/Pages/Championship-Cup
I don'y know about total pay, but read on Twitter that it pays $20,000 to win the 410 Track ChampionshipQuote:
Originally Posted by mcarter815
The state of Late Model Racing and Sprint Car Racing has flipped in the past 10-12 years. Used to an Outlaw would run over most locals anywhere but northern Ohio and Pa and some Ca tracks. While a local in a late model could race for the win against the big touring series. Like I said now it's flopped; more and more local regional sprint guys have equipment nearly or as good as the WoO guys and they can run competitively. It seems to be more accessible as the chassis are more basic and haven't had drastic changes in a long period. I think all those factors have laid a base for guys to stay in a sprint car and get better, and now all the equipment is close. That makes it easy for fans to get excited on a weekly or regional level and have a guy to root for and continue to root for the home teams even when All*Stars or Outlaws come to town.Quote:
Originally Posted by play4kps
Now in the Late Models, the locals don't even show up to the Lucas races, and the regional guys usually (but not always) get beat by the same 5-6 tour guys.
But have you compared what a new rolling sprint car chassis costs compared to a new late model rolling chassis costs . The sprint car is way cheaper chassis wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bayko
Sure, but unless you are wrecking all the time, you don't need that many chassis in a season. Those motors are a regular maintenance cost. I think I read that they only last a dozen races before needing a rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by TBSprintFan
Brsteg you hit on something! Attica pay 3000 to win for winged sprints and 1200 for late models. the fans there still love both, but when the outlaws or Lucas late models come in, the locals are nowhere to be found, I realize they arent heavily bankrolled by series sponsors, but for local fans that sucks. When the All stars or World of Outlaws come in, the locals run and are competitive. Until something can be done to keep locals competitive, dirt late model car counts will continue to fall. In dirt late model racing there is way too many races paying 30,000 dollars plus, so they can claim their race is a crown jewel, A crown jewel should be a race that pays extremely well thru the field. If you cant pay 10,000 to win and pay the additional 20,000 thru the field. Example: this year the dream payed 125,000 to win, you could pay 50,000 and the same cars will be there. you could pay 2nd 40,000, 3rd 30,000, 4th 25,000 and 5th 20,000, 6th 15,000, and the field 1000 less from there and pay 3000 to start.
Oh, I know a sprint roller is cheaper, but a top team will go through a dozen rollers a season.Quote:
Originally Posted by TBSprintFan
Back in may I went to the woo sprints at fairgrounds in Nashville it paid 15 grand Friday night an 25 grand Saturday night it was sold out Saturday night seats 20 thousand at 40 a seat.
People complain theres no passing in winged sprint car racing, well late models have become pretty much just like it. Personally I like both, but other than the Knoxville Nationals and World 100 if I could chose between another World of Outlaws sprint car race vs a Lucas Oil late model race I will pick the Outlaws every time these days.
No WoO team goes through a dozen rollers a season, I would say most would get 2-3 new cars a season and refurbish their old cars as spares. I would say if you took everything into consideration the cost to just run the car alone, not including driver, crew, hauler , etc., it would be pretty much equal from a top late model to a top sprint team. You are starting to see a lot of areas starting to run wingless sprints as it is a more affordable option of race car now a days. You can buy a good low night roller for around $5000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bayko
Snowman, sadly, I feel the same as you. And it really sucks because I used to love dirt late model racing more than any other form, but over the past 3 years, the lack of passing and quality racing has really dwindled. And sadly most on this forum are cheerleading the death of this great form of racing, they will say, just dont go, or be happy we got something, really.
The “real” underdog here may be non-wing sprints which in my opinion, along with midgets, may offer the most competitive racing of any but seem to lag overall in fan attendance and purses money. The thing I’ll never understand about wing sprint fans is how excited they get when someone wins by half a lap. But they sure invest big time in tee shorts and caps.
Wingless sprint cars and midgets are really exciting to watch, but they are also more dangerous than the wing cars. Those wings were originally developed to make the cars safer.
So very, very true.
I'm not happy 'til you're not happy too.
Non wing sprints are much more exciting, but like you said much more dangerous! I live in Troy Ohio, We lack weekly dirt track racing in our area, Waynesfield used to run a weekly non wing sprint show, now special events. 2 plus hours from late model racing kind of sucks.