Pros and cons of each?
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Pros and cons of each?
Camaro front suspension is better.You can make the leaf springs real simple or as complex as you want.
If it's allowed on your home track and that's about the only place you race, Camaros will eat that metric cars lunch. Especially if it's dry slick.
Not true at all. Look at the Nesmith Street Stock series. Metrics dominate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32racingjunkie
If you want to completely rebuild the front end with new Nova lowers, pinto spindles and different center links, and a host of other changes you might be right. But straight out of the box the metric won't do it. And if I want to go that far, put carbon fiber leafs on and lighten the front springs on that camaro and I'll put it against anything on any track. Camaros are more race ready for the beginner.
Metric's rear suspension six... they like to dance around with their crappy four link. I have a WISSOTA super stock chassis with a Camaro stub and Mopar leaf rear... best of both worlds.
The only reason so many guys run metrics is they aren't smart enough to run a Ford Crown Vic frame that has a four bar rear...
I like being able to change the rear springs on a moments notice . If you know whats wrong with the factory design, you can easily manipulate it with changing the length and rate.
In a pure/factory stock class hands down Camaro will be faster. Reason why a lot of tracks don't allow them. You can take any junk Camaro, setup right will beat any high dollar metric car..
Metric. No comparison if you know how to set a car up. Metric more consistent
keep that a secret there krooser , im building one for my daughter rite now, was wanting to have it ready to hot lap some before the end of the year, but looks like it will be spring now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krooser
Metric more consistent? LMAO
Or go with a leaf spring which IAMN loves binding issues. Hahaha
crown vic/grand marquee is the best of the linked rear ends cars, if you know what years to look for on the rear suspension.
Ford front end is far superior to the metric, and very similar to the Camaro.
be nice if rules would allow chevy motor and trans in the Ford chassis, but most will not let you cross breed.
But I believe you can build more power, smoother power with a Ford, just hard to sell if you want to ever get out.
hush your mouth justadddirt, your telling to much , us poor ole blue oval racers need a break...LOL.....
I built a nova leaf car to max of the imca rules.. then 71/77 full sized.. then a mitric car
2 wins 6 -8 wins 45 wins in the metric.
metric was like a go cark. its narrower side to side so more side bite and forward drive
lol... I understand. mouth shut from here on out.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastford
I'm out
Leaf cars are not very competitive around here anymore.
Not here either. A few builders like Rocketman, are winning everything!Quote:
Originally Posted by oilman
Depends on the rules both can win.
I have a metric stomping Camaros up North, but I still believe if the guys in the camaros knew what in the world they were doing and stopped working about the monte they would be winning races
Camaros can't get through the corner if their life depended on it. Simply a drive off car. Metric can get you the speed by carrying way more momentum. Love watching the "fast boy" set ups get smoked in the dry. It's hilarious.
Well said 7uptruckracer. LOL many setups other than the fast boy setup. I laughed all the way to the pay window many nights on those dry slick tracks watching the metric guys scratch their head wondering what happened. After getting through the corners quite well.
Just look at the pros and cons I've said it many time here. Metic con is the high rear roll center that inhibits sidebite. Camaro Leaf rear has low rear roll center good sitebite but that can hurt entry (if you don't make sure you free it up) the pro is they have good front end geometry but I will say its better for asphalt front end wise for what I try to do with them. The low rear roll center can shine in the slick but you have to make sure the good rear side bite is matched with good front grip because if you have to break rear traction to turn the car you are sunk which is what I see against the car I setup week in and week out. The rules are key to which is better. A Camaro with Jacking Bolt slider rears or even no sliders and aftermarket uppers in the front and maybe one other rule and I think it can really stand a chance to hurting a mertric with the same rules but a Stock metric link rear.
key is rear toe in on the leaf springs. 75 up nova has more than Camaro, but manipulating it makes a world of difference.
relocating the upper a arm mounts is also very critical to the whole package.
taking out anti-dive is huge as well
Ford parts on the GM also makes a large difference.
lost of little tricks.
I built one last year for a friend. if he had balls enough to drive it, it would not lose a race.
he put another gentlemen in car that has a wining metric, and he said he has never driven anything like it. he now wants one built.
Ahh don't go telling too much now lol we work hard for our secrets
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAddDirt
mentioning it, understanding it, an applying it, are totally different worlds....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by 7uptruckracer
hey guys first post here. glad to see an active forum about dirt racing. that being said, let me get into this one here... i have a nova - what we call hobby stock some call street stock. ( full stock chassis with regards to mounting points, stock steal roof, stock floor pan) we have alot of camaros, lots of nova, and a few metric coil cars. one coil car in particular come out this year ans started whooping our butts. i believe most of the leaf guys are using the same setup we have used for the last idk 10 yrs or so. so what can i do different??
OK, lets take it one step further. I am the OP and since I made the original post, I bought a car. I bought neither. What I settled on was a 68-72 Chevelle. I am hoping the improved front geometry on the Chevelle will make up for the faults of the Metric and give me the best of both worlds.
I was under the impression from previous posts the camaros were the best with the leaf rear and the better front end geometry
Camaros are a thing of the past. Can't get momentum/center speed outta them. Ditch them and know how to set up a car at every corner and have it work for you. The camaros will bind up and simply suck through the center. Diamond corner car and that's it. Big half Mike stuff they get raped. Point and shoot they stand a chance but annoying when you're in a faster metric car through the center of corners.
we are seeing the same thing you just said about the camaro @dirt_Buster. i started with a camaro and soon found out they sucked everywhere but down the straights. very inconsistent. the nova however seemed to be everything the camaro isnt. we get good roll over and great bite when setup correctly. also 100 times more consistent it would seem.
Metric, Chevelle and Camaros will all work fine with the proper work done to any of them. However what we've found over the last 30 years trying each type is that the metric car requires a lot more attention, both on the front and rear suspension to be really good as well as a lot more time spent under the back end at the track adjusting things. The Chevelle front end is much better as well as simpler to get right. We've had much more success with the Camaros and have spent the last 10 years getting them right. The front ends are pretty simple to do with a little attention to the spindles and a-arms that you use. The leaf rears work well pretty much right out of the box and, if you run a Super/Pro type class like us that allows a lot of modifications, you can get all the forward and side bite you can stand and have a very consistent setup that will almost never get beat out of the corner by the others. Plus you will rarely spend your night at the track changing all your rear adjustments and, yes, a well built leafer will have adjustments. Ours has well over 30. As I hit the 3/4 century mark yesterday laying in the dirt at the track has less appeal than it did 50 years ago.
Marysville Raceway in CA runs a season ending all stock car show called the Taxi Open every year,everything from Pure Stocks, Hobby Stocks, Pro/Super/Street Stocks, Winged Super Stocks and Limited Late Models. Several guys, including us, run multiple classes. Leafs, 3 links, 4 bars and a couple of Ford 4 links are in the Supers and Winged classes. Last year we won the Pro/Super/Street main and this year won our heat in that division and were 2nd with 2 laps to go in the main and broke an axle, first one in over 30 years, so with the winged main up next couldn't fix it in time to start that one. Ran well in our winged heat with a sideboard though. With the season over for us (looks like our Thanksgiving race will get rained out) you might enjoy the Marysville highlights tape on their Facebook page. We're the black & yellow 4T for those who think leafs are inconsistent & lack bite. Enjoy and continue the debate.LOL
Nova's are better mainly because they have more toe in on the rear springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenchead84
I think 75 and up use the same geometry front end as the Camaro. but the leaf's are closer together in the front mounting.
takes out bind that a Camaro has with the straighter spring stack.