DQ'ed at Volusia for failing post race tech. $10k win was given to Bronson
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DQ'ed at Volusia for failing post race tech. $10k win was given to Bronson
I read dq for valve springs on facebook so it has to be true
When DoD elaborated, it was an infraction outside the seals. So the engine builder isn’t banned. Which I believe you are correct. Because if I remember right, the valve springs and that were something not part of the sealed deal. Though, ya cannot run illegal ones. Though I have no idea on the benefits of better ones. I’m sure someone will enlighten us.
The valve train is the weak link that limits those engines. You can't turn them over 6800 without blowing them up. Fixing that weak link will help a lot. Especially on restart as you can then run a lower gear.
It was on the restarts where he was definitely pulling on them into another zip code. I knew it had more to do than being in a 07' or 09' Masters.
It was valve spring height. My opinion is more height= less chance of floating valves at high rpm.
"The inspection process ended up being a long one as the winner's engine failed post-race inspection due to the valve spring installed height did not meet the GM Performance specifications."
From a CrateRacin' employee's post.
in a deal like this do they completely tear down the engine? or stop once they find something illegal?
^^^ I was also curious if they inspect the inherent winner (in this case, I believe it was Bronson) to the same extent? I would hope so, at least, for that amount of money.
Changing the valve spring installed height can effectively help eliminate valve float, or at least move it to a higher RPM range... You are allowed to 'correct' the install height but not alter it more than allowed, I guess it is the droop rule of valvetrain!
Washers under the springs, if they did tech before the cars went on track half the field would be dq'd.
The crate series (and CrateRacin' USA in particular) do a great job in tech from my experience. These cars are so equal that everyone wants to be right on the edge to be sure they get the most out of them (so maybe a little carbon buildup puts you out of spec, or you just can't read a micrometer and push things a little far). Calling everyone a 'cheater' is just an easy excuse for getting beat. It does happen but not as often as everyone would like to believe.
I agree with you, it's up to tech. If it's good, then there is a lot less cheating.
Unfortunately, it's a class where cheating can yield a big edge because the cars are severely under powered. I like classes that don't require rulebook enforcement as much to keep cars close.
I prefer that as well, however the crate class has also allowed quite a few guys to keep racing (I am one). I would much rather bolt a 900 horsepower engine down between the frame rails, just can't afford it. I ran with CrateRacin' USA for a couple of years, they kept everyone honest (at least at that time).
Was he dq'ed from Thursday portion as he was running same motor?
If you've ever been to any of the big passing crate races and hung around after. You would know the top three engines usually get tore completely down and every measurement checked and if it doesent have gm deals it must meet every spec. The area that page got disqualified for is very easy to be illegal in and not from trying to cheat. If i remember correctly they dont have a installed height number but a seat pressure number.i think it's somthing like 110# if your over, your illegal. I have seen spring checkers vary and i have also seen the plate on the checker come loose allowing a little flex yeilding a lower number. We're talking about a number that .010"-.020" installed height change can easily push you over the limit. While i agree this is a easy area to cheat in is a really easy area to get caught in aswell. I doubt he intentionally cheated he may have attempted to push it to the very upper limit and rightfully so. Jmo
For those not familiar with checking that valve spring install hieght, this is how it's done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAK-SDr0qP0
Now, who knows who checked or set it on pages engine, but it NOT that easy to miss the number if you are using a proper install hieght mic like shown in video or are just flat pushing the height to the limit. Now if you're using a scale/ruler or dial calipers then YES it's easy to miss by .020 but why would you check and set it without the proper tools?
https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/.../SPRING-02.jpg
While i agree with your statement im not suggesting sombody read the mic wrong I'm suggesting that the desired install height created to much seat pressure deaming him illegal. I did not watch the video but that is only one of the tools involved in setting valve springs correctly
Cars these days are so close it is hard to give up engine. I ran supers for over 20 years, our budget was small but we could at least make the big shows. Since that time technology has made it harder and harder for the team to be able to do this, however it has also created some very tough fields for those that can afford it. Nature of the beast really, can't stop progress (although you have to wonder if it is really progress when you look at car counts). But enough, I also agree that Page's infraction was most likely an error or wear and not intentional.
I'm only going off what was posted that the install height was incorrect. I know what your saying that the pressure may been too high and the install height was correct, but what was said here was the "install hieght was wrong" (not sure if that was the case, just going off what was posted)
I'm pulling numbers out of my arse, too lazy to look up the correct numbers
The install hieght is spec'ed like at 1.78 +/- a certain amount like .020
The spring pressure has a max pressure of like 110#
So while possible that a spring is out of spec and has 115# at the 1.76 to 1.8 install height allowed, it's not very common. They know the range of the springs and have rules set so it doesn't happen often, but it is possible. The pressure rule is more for non stock springs and springs that look just like the stock ones but are slightly stiffer. Many of those have real similar seat pressures but the open pressure is higher and hard to check without pulling spring off head to check the full range of the spring not just the on head test for seat pressure with a pull type on head spring checker.
Again, just going off the report/post why he was D/Q'ed it seems he was out of spec on the install height, I didn't see anything posted about pressure. I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus but if it was indeed a install hieght only infraction, then that was done by someone not taking the time to do it right or didn't have the proper tools to set it correctly. Also not saying it was done on purpose either, could been a mistake, but with things like that I would figure a decent team doesn't make mistakes like that, when it's one of the first things checked
This is the type of violation where i have a very hard time believing it was intentional just because you have to know they're going to check that.
The reason I was thinking someone made a mistake was I had heard from someone there that only one spring checked wrong.
They’re saying they removed a specific amount of shims (washers?), but accidentally left one too many in.
So curiosity was killing the cat here. So i looked it up the valves are allowed to be shimmed a maximum of .020" to get seat pressure back after valve seat machining during a rebuild the seat pressure is 101# plus or minus 4# so basically 105#. If one takes the press release for its literal wording than it's must have measured wrong. But the two are directly related so if you told a engine guy your seat pressure was wrong he would tell you thats because your installed height is wrong. So to say the installed height is wrong could be interpreted as it's actually wrong or the spring pressure is incorrect since it is what controls that spec. Not trying to argue with anyone just thinking out loud
Whats kinda strange, he won the big crate race at Cochran just a couple months ago! Did they not check it then or was this a new motor?
springs out of spec are more common than you think with these cheaper springs , thats why builders like Brad go through a bunch of springs just to get a set like they want that will comply with tech , i have bought a lot of the throw away,s from a local builder for half price that under normal applications were fine , this is the problem with a crate engines , if you want the very best LEGAL engine , you have to pay the piper .......
It amazing that would be such a big advantage in such an old car. People are constantly talking about new cars being faster, and the fact that even new Mastersbilt aren't faster makes it more amazing one 10+ years old crossed the line before a new XR1. There was an article in Dirt Late Model Magazine about Page years ago and one of his sponsors talking about how he was one of the few drivers left who could cut the front clip off the car and rework it all by himself. I wonder it Tader knows about the mods Page has made to that chassis.
Not knocking anything Paige has done but just because it's a good crate car doesent mean it can compete with an open motor in it. Most guys in crates get caught up chasing the newer setups and their car couldn't spin a tire with the old stuff so alot of it is all for nothing.