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Does Ford build a crate engine that could be looked at to compete with a GM crate engines?
Would any series even look at making it possible to have an option for die hard Ford folks?
Just random thoughts that run through my head.
Let me hear what you think??
Ford had/designed one years ago when crates first started, but it was more money and had a little too much power to be comparable to the 604. Not sure on the whole deal but it didn't get approved as ford or someone didn't want to adjust the engine to be more inline with the 604 so it never got approved ford comp with/against the 604.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAddDirt
Something to that effect, think it was a 347 cid. IIRC correct the 604 back then was under 5K and the ford was 7400.00 and was up 70HP (HP may be off). I do think Stan Lester (fastrax) really tried to make the ford happen to allow a choice, but it never worked out.
If it was a 347ci that would mean it was a stroked 302. Which would be considerably less weight than the 604 as well.
That would be so much better of an option than the 604 just Because of the weight (roughly 50lbs)
the weight was the biggest issue , the 347 was a good bit lighter than the 350 chevy , and there 351 crate was to heavy , but the real reason was this was a cheby deal to start with and gm wanted ALL the money , there was a rumor that Chrysler look at this and realized what i just mentioned and decided there was no use.......
Not to mention the only Ford parts in the Ford engine are the block and heads.
Scat rods and crank, comp cam, mahle pistons, and clevite rings among other stuff. The engine is about 40-50 pounds lighter than the chevy and makes more than the advertised hp.
you saying we trying to cheat swingarm? lol
we have been involved with the GM crate program since the beginning and I have watched and heard the Ford story---
to my knowledge ---everything that has been written so far in this thread is pretty accurate
there were some early attempts to even the engines up with a restrictor plate but that never gained much traction
Brad
www.race-1.com
there was a guy in north alabama named gant , that they let test one and from what i understood , thats when they (crate association) decided it had to much of an advantage , my problem with that was , they chose a very experienced racer to do this test , he could have out run his competition at that time with a 12hp briggs and stratton , they should have chosen a less experienced driver , like crate racing was suppose to be......JMO.......
couple things that have not been mentioned
1st--sponsorship
Chevrolet/GM has put a ton of sponsorship money into the crate world and I have not heard where the other 2 manufacturers have even considered any equal commitment
2nd---this is my personal theory...
in the beginning very few people (including myself) thought that "crate" racing would catch on ---not to mention become a large portion of racing in general in such a short period of time
it happened quick and big----GM was able to make a large footprint in the racing world with 2 basic engines in a very short time -----it would be hard for a manufacturer to compete or the industry to adjust to another manufacturer
just my 2cents
Brad
www.race-1.com
1st , they did not want another manufacture to participate , so no need for them to spend sponsorship dollars on the class , which brings me to #2 , GM is the sanctioning body , rule makers and such , so , Why would they ever allow another manufacture to play in there sand box,,,,my personal theory......
GM is the sanctioning body?????? please explain
rule makers???---the only rule that I know of made by GM is the spec manual for the engine
they have carburetor--fuel and header recommendations but never made a rule.
I understand that Ford and Chrysler enthusiasts are less than pleased that the racing industry has been influenced by the Gm crate engines but I don't see how you can blame GM for Ford and Chrysler choosing not to enter the ring
again just my 2 cents
Brad
www.race-1.com
The main point should be that G.M. started the whole idea of spec engines on dirt tracks. If you were in G.M.'s current position of having your spec. engines used exclusively in several racing series, would you allow other manufacturers in the series that you developed???? I highly doubt that you would allow this, I would not. If you want to run a ford engine, you have 2 choices, run in an open engine late model class, or start your own series that uses ford spec engines. I am not trying to be rude by saying this, but sometimes I think some people need to back up and look at the whole picture.
i agree tirechanger , i think it was a business adventure from the beginning , i have no use for a crate engine whether it is a ford or a chevy , i just hate to hear that a ford cant compete in crate racing because IMO they have never really been given a chance , i realize short track racing is typically a chevy thing , which is the" whole picture " I suppose , but i think it would have been nice to have a little diversity .......
First I will say I been a ford guy since I was 12 years old. However with crate racing having a choice would be nice for a couple reasons the main problem with it would be like NASCAR during the Goodyear/Hoosier tire era. Both companies trying to out do the other and kept bringing softer and softer tires to the tracks and next thing you know guys are popping tires due to them not lasting and guys using one tire here and that tire there and end up buying both brands.Quote:
Originally Posted by fastford
Keeping or making the engines really equal wasn't gonna be super easy, so really it's easier to just have one engine that everyone uses.
It's been probably close to 20 years ago but Chrysler did have a 360 CI 400 HP crate engine designed specifically for racing. In typical Chrysler fashion it was built by engineers and not race people. The block they used was an R series race block which is about 60-70 pounds heavier than a stock block and used the same heads that are used on our over 800 HP super engines. Intake ports way to big and a 2.15 valve has no place on a low RPM 360 CI crate engine. They were built at 9 to 1 compression and a lot of them ran hot from people lugging them around. A lot of the series didn't like that the only rocker arms available were T&D or Jesel. Seems they didn't think it was fair. Chrysler tried but had a bunch of idiots in that program. They were smart and let real race engine builders like Stanton, Gearte, and Malcuit help design the sprint car and late model engines.
well , we have more in common than i thought , i was born into the blue oval camp 56 years ago , my uncle and my dad campaigned a 61 Galaxy super stock with a 375hp 390 in it , which i still have the engine , they were in line for a 64 light weight when Vietnam came calling , when i gave up drag racing in the early 90,s and started dirt racing , we put a 400 modified crank in a 351 W block and put h3ll on them cheby,s in a street stock , i make most of my living off chevy,s but i,m true blue at heart......Quote:
Originally Posted by billetbirdcage
can I join the club?
I think everyone thinks I am the GM crate engine "GUY" ---both sides of my families ---Both grandpas were avid ford men---no question
my first several vehicles were Fords---if not I would have needed a new place to sleep--LOL
I often tell my kids and wife ---If my grandpa's were alive now --holidays would be very quiet or VERY LOUD--LOL
I don't know how this happened but I guess I took the path of least resistance.
truth be told --I am not a fan of any manufacturer---I just need to feed my family and chevyland has been pretty good for that
Brad
www.race-1.com
i agree brad , im seeing LS3,s in my sleep , now i will say , the new ford over head cam engines are picking up with the drag boys , but the conventional ford engines have all but died here , which i am in the heart of chevy country......
I have avoided the LS wave as long as possible
we took a couple quick stabs at dynoing CT525's but the hook up was very time consuming only because everything is so different than our traditional LT engines
we can run three 602/604 engines in one day----the couple of CT525's we tried, took half a day just to get it ready to dyno
not the fault of the engine ---old fat guy that is set in his ways was the problem--LOL
we recently extended some effort towards becoming more efficient with our dyno procedures for the LS engines.
our local dealer estimates that we will see 15 to 20 LS engines a month from them alone so we figured it was time to enter the LS ERA with both feet
I am fortunate that we have a couple of experienced and knowledgeable LS associates that will be taking the lead on this new venture----all I will have to do is run the dyno and sit back and learn (for awhile anyway)
not sure I am thrilled with it but grandpa always said if your not moving forward then you are backing up because everything around you is moving forward.
Brad
www.race-1.com
Real men drive:Quote:
Originally Posted by fastford
Greater
Mans
Chevy!!!
….and now my wife drives one! :)
real men want to be First On Race Day , and a few women to......
speed kills....drive a ford and live forever!
Curt Drake
Chevrolet Racer #55
nah , i like living on the wild side , now i figure when i get like red farmer , 80 something , then i will slow down and put a chevy in , so i can ride around and not have to worry about running over any one..
Found on road Dead
First on race day
ETC we all heard the sayings for Ford, the only chevy one I ever heard was:
Clatter happy every Valve yells
GRINS
For Off Road Duty....billet , chevy hasnt done anything to deserve a title.....lol.....
Isn't fast/ford an oxymoron? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fastford
dont be calling me that zero , you might hurt my feelins....which i have been called the second part of that word before....