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I sat down to watch Flo Race last night and realized there are 2 classes of Crate Late Models. I guess I have seen it in results but never really paid attention.
Why cant this sport just make one class of crates and be done with it?
And why do tracks use a tractor as a wrecker?
Probably the same reason there is a street stock, factory stock, and hobby stock class and some tracks run 2 or 3 of those classes as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty-white-boy
There should only be one class of crates; however the racers do this to themselves.... To me, perfect world would be Crates as top weekly class; smaller regional series 'limited' late models; bigger regional-national series would be super late models. Problem is no way to keep the national series alive without some local support in most areas...
A mods, B mods... XYZ mods... Ridicules!
Well that right there now is one of more ridiculous things I've read. I'm not paying to watch crate late weekly. There is no feeder system to go up with this idea. Eliminate crate crap and you'll get more supers. The mentality of you have to have 900hp wide bore bs is just that. It's needed at big tracks and fast qualifying tracks but by feature time a good setup, feel, and smooth 825hp cheaper motor can and will win races
Well you have 2 major crate sanctions. Fast track and rush. One flies around in his airplane to races and the other one used to be a track owner/promotor until she drank the water..
They both want to take over racing. Where I'm from in the summer months ( pa ) promotors have wised up and the 358 motors are replacing the crate garbage and classes are growing each year. The south is still crate land I call it and 4 cylinder racers are everywhere.
One thing most casual fans don't realize is these crate racers have to pay hefty entrance fee's on top of back gate tickets to get in the pits.
The ones making all the $$$ in crate racing are the 2 organizers
Jim11, personally Im not a fan of crates, but if you think eliminating crates is going to drive people to late models, your totally wrong, until you reign in the corporate sponsors of dirt on dirt, WOO and Lucas oil, it will be the haves and have nots. And if guys cant make the feature, how do you expect them to get any better? And how long do you think they will show up to trailer for the feature or get lapped 2 or 3 times in a 30 lap feature? The problems in super late model racing are much bigger than crates. If anything its helping the sport, those crate guys will be hungrier to get into a late model, and work on their skills to run Supers.
Yes, people are busting at the seams to race weekly super late models! That is why tracks have continued to drop the super late models, not enough room in the pits for the huge car counts... I prefer supers myself, however if it were not for the crate car my racing would have stopped 10 years ago.
Once upon a time the 602 and 604 ran together and the 602 got a weight break.
Wanna know why the Dirt Kings series is becoming a successful late model regional series up in Wisconsin, look at their engine rules. They have formulas in place to allow for open, WISSOTA rules, and other engine/weight formulas.
Josh has it right when he pointed out that 602s and 604s ran together with one getting a weight break.
Do away with qualifying and have some good honest tech work and you can merge a bunch of engine/weight formulas together in the same class. You might not arrive at the perfect world and someone might argue that a certain formula is the advantage but you'll possibly grow your class. A lot can be done with weight and spoiler combinations to equalize things, especially when weight has to be added in certain areas.
Dirt Kings engine rules 2021.
• WISSOTA – 2300 lbs, 10” max set back / 29 ½” ball joint to motor plate.
• Open Motor – 2350 lbs**, 6” max set back / 25 ½” ball joint to motor plate.
Under 370 cubic inches, 10” max set back / 29 ½” ball joint to motor plate.
• IMCA Engine – 2250 lbs, 10” max set back / 29 ½” ball joint to motor plate.
• WDLMA Spec – 2250 lbs, 10” max set back / 29 ½” ball joint to motor plate.
OPEN ENGINE COMBINATIONS
• Any engine not designated WISSOTA, SPEC or IMCA
• GM CT525 Crate Engines will be considered open motors - coil packs and/or individual
ignition systems (electronic or mechanical) will not be permitted.
• Aluminum blocks engines must run 50 lbs in front of the motor plate (Steel blocks are
exempt) OR have a restrictor plate of 1.25” installed at all times. The weight or restrictor
plate must stay in place all night and cannot switch to the other during the night
• Additional weight and restrictor plate may be added at half mile tracks
Quite a few tracks here in NE Ga and SC have done away with the 604 class altogether and only run 602. That led to some drivers moving up to Limited and a few dropping back to 602. I think part of this is due to the 602 engines now cost right at what 604s cost few years back even before supply issues. 602 was initially a beginner late model class where chassis had to be a certain year or older. Got to hard to enforce I believe so they opened it up. They now have a 602 charger division for beginner drivers.
I personally like the mix of engine groups, can remember when running in the midwest the 390 carb was introduced to help even the field. Biggest change in supers is actually how good the cars are now (bodies, shocks, etc.), lap times are so close that it does come down to engine in qualifying. Cars are very aero dependent so if you do not start up front it is very hard to pass- add in track prep that is not good and you get very poor racing (regardless of engine)....and for the record I agree that 602 and 604 should be run together as initially conceived.
I'd rather watch steel blocks over any "crate" class.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvelB7
I could care less how many classes of cars there are, just make it a rule that when a traveling series comes to town the promoter gets two support classes along with the feature class.
Two.
Two only.
And the feature class gets the best time slot(s), whenever that may be.
Move left rear shock and spring back in front of axle and enforce the body rules as they're written. Also eliminate 4 stage shocks etc. Big pony not needed
Jim11h- you are dead wrong.
Dirtcrazy4u, did you forger about Crate Racin USA dude?
You folks slay me sometimes who have no knowledge of race track dynamics.
Late Model Mark
Talladega Short Track Announcer
I remember ONE late model class where you got paid for qualifying, heats, b-mains and features. Our sportsman cars did the same.
The slow cars ran the slow heats and b-mains. The fast guys ran the feature.
Some guys had $50.00 motors and $1,000 cars. Others had $3,000 motrors and $5,000 cars. We all ran together. And had plenty of cars... two classes and 150 cars.
I can build a 600 HP engine for less than the cost of those 604's. Time for class to begin for those credit card racers.
Credit card racers :) good one krooser
Well mark enlighten me where and how I'm dead wrong. Traction necessitates hp & torque. Kroozer is 200% correct.
I got a good idea. Guy cant win in 604. He lobbies for 602 class to try his luck there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Late_Model_Mark
The American All-Star Series is an up and coming crate touring series and their rules still allow a 602 with a weight reduction to compete with 604's. I'm not sure many run a 602 with the series, but they have that option. I run crates myself and personally think just having one crate class would be fine. 602 stuff has migrated to non-adj. shocks mostly, but seperating that class wasn't what needed to be done.
Well what needs to happen is you have got to cut out classes I agree 1 crate class is enough but you can't run 8 to 10 classes and pay them a decent purse all you got then is a wore out race track if you run 3 or 4 classes you can pay good money and draw more cars in each class and have a good track and if needed you can rotate classes from week to week and you get done at a decent time this day and time if your going to draw a crowd you better put on a show.
Watch it 3 wide, don't let the promotors think they can actually make money by putting on a quality program in a timely manner....Upsets the 'I need the back gate to pay the purse' mentality that has brought all these classes on. Next thing you know people will be talking about the great time they had at the track, bringing friends and family etc.
If you really want to draw guys to super late models again. Do away with the extreme top heavy purses, do away with the out of control aero, and affordable shock package rules!
Bingo! We have a winner....Quote:
Originally Posted by play4kps
Dont say that about top heavy purses, Pennsboro32 will jump your sh!t about it!Quote:
Originally Posted by play4kps
I agree with 427c.i. I have been saying this for years. Why must promoters have a big show and run five classes? I was at Clarksville last year and they ran five classes for the Summer Nats. Add to that some classes had two cars! Lincoln, IL did the same thing this year for the Summer Nats. Then had a few crates run with the supers. ok, chase the supers. But I think I lean towards just having one class.
Most fans cannot tell the difference in these classes. It seems simple in my mind. Choose three classes of the following for a regular night and fans will come. A. Open lates. B. Crates or Limited. C. Mods (only one class) D. Sportsmen -- should they be Crates by now??? E. Hornets or Kid Mods