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For some reason we seem to go through 4-5 starters a year, and then I see some people gets 3-4 years out of one? Ive tried Power Master, Bert, Allstar, done the Toyota Starter deal, and nothing seems to work very long. Is anyone else flying through Starters?? We buy as many Starters as Tires lolIve added grounds, covered when washing, took off when washing, 12v Battery, 16v battery, keep the Idler gear lubricated.... just to name a few... what am I missing??
What's the major problem or is it several different problems? Is it just after a while the starter doesn't seem to engage the flywheel and does the grind of death and won't engage to spin the engine?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtslinger20
We’ve never really had a problem with engaging the fly wheel, it just seems the starters get weak, almost like the battery is dead, won’t hardly spin the motor over. Ive prolly bought 10 brand new ones in the past 3- 4 years. Just got a new to us car, came with the tranny, belhousing, and starter..... 2nd race out... wouldn’t crank lol
I got nothing specific for you, if it was the engaging that is usually the gap between flywheel and idler too large and needs shims on crank to flywheel
It does seem like you get a decent starter or a crap one. Only thing comes to mind is are you using a small battery like the half size ones (non lithium) and just low on voltage (assume not the case since you said 12 or 16 volt batteries) or cable size is small and starters get hot. Then possibly using starter too much to get oil pressure if dry sump and getting them hot and wearing them out fast.
Sorry, probably not much help. Also check solenoild or battery cut off switch as they are notorious for not making good contact at times and being general POS. Also ground to engine
FWIW, my thoughts would align with too small of wire going to the starter causing too much amp draw. My father owns a starter/alternator rebuild shop and we run the Toyota starters. We can usually get 2 seasons on a starter. Not that I race a whole ton though..
when we went to a 16volt, never had another problem, low voltage will kill one of these style starters every time, charge batt every week , zero problems, let it get low 1 or 2 times and crank hard, borrowed time, thats my experience 4 yrs on one cranking 450 wide bore
I would check with dbr performance and machine 931-724-9201 cconcerning your starter - they have done several for me and have had no problems
First off, make sure the starter is grounded very well, run a heavy gauge copper wire from one of the starter mount bolts to a known good ground. Second off, I very much prefer to use a ford style starter solenoid located very near the starter. Check all connections very well. Agree with the above poster who says low voltage will kill a race starter. The brushes in the starter and the starter drive itself can get bad spots on them, these bad spots are usually caused by holding the starter button an excessive amount of time, probably because you have a bad connection somewhere in the system, could be on the negative, could be on the possitive.
Always make sure the idler gear is getting disengaged from the flywheel. If the shaft in the bell housing is not or hasn't been greased in a while the idler will stay engaged and i don't care what starter you buy none of them like RPM over cranking speed.
Maybe helpful I don't know But I use AWG 2 welding ground cable(stranded) and solder the ends on. I use Dialectric grease on all the connections. I check the frame grounds for shiny metal several times a year. I have the QM reverse mount starter, bought it used 10 years ago.
do you cover it when washing?
the Toyota starters have a drain hole in them for when they are on the normal car, but it points up when we use them. I always pull out the grommet and put clear silicone in that hole so no moisture or debris gets inside motor case.
until I done this I would go through a couple a year, as well as covering with Walmart bag when washing.
Ditch any Chicom switches, wiring, solenoids etc.
Stuff from Quickcar is mostly Chinese and causes havoc...
Krooser there’s several things from China causing Havoc :)Thanks to the ones who have offered advice. I always cover the Starter when washing. The car we have now has adequate gauge of wiring but i will check all grounds for secure connections. The guy that took the starter off at the track and replaced it, didn’t realize the gear was broken off, so there’s another problem to figure out. :(Prolly made in China!
The Asian made mini alternators are as bad as the starters. I practically keep my local starter/alternator repair shop in business between the two.
Got a Quartermaster reverse rotation starter in one car that, so far, has about 15 nights with no problems so maybe that will last a while compared to most of them that are lucky to get half a dozen before problems.
The mini Denso type alternators often fail on the first or second outings while our other car has a full size AC Delco alternator that I've had in 4 or 5 different cars for over 18 years with zero issues. I'll take the couple of pounds of extra weight any day.
And I won't even get started on the life of batteries.
Pressure washers, low voltage, dirty/ sticky idler in bell housing. The killers of starters. Did I mention pressure washers? What part of the starter are you damaging? If their weak cranking, but still cranks, likely 2 brushes aren't working inside....easy fix. External Loose/poor connections are pretty easy to find with voltage drop test, and get hot when cranking. Once a connection gets hot it's all down hill from there unless it gets cleaned up first and re tightened. But, every good electrical diagnosis starts at the BATTERY!
i also run an extra ground cable from bellhousing flange on the engine to the motor plate tab on the car. It cant hurt when everything is powdercoated
Most of the problems are associated with washing the engine area,mud lay's inside the starter causing it to be inop.You say you have used a Bert starter! Are you sure? People have built starters,and affix a Bert Decal on them,causing you to think it's a Bert Deal,NOT SO! Bert makes a starter,that most late model teams,and mod. teams use.The drainage hole for the water to escape is located in the correct position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtslinger20
The best starter that I have ever had,and still use today,(13yrs old)is a TILTON,with A BERT designed nose piece.
I'm going to do the Toyota started conversion this winter.
I ordered one with 5HP but got a 3HP as I recall.
I guess I will see how it works... just spin the starter then hit the ignition swith. Just like old times.
On this topic I bought my QM from a guy, that was his spare and not used. I had it apart a silly coned it shut, sealing off water/dirt. It's been great too me for 10 years.
Running a shut-off in line? I am one who will never run a separate ford solenoid. It is only another place for voltage or amp drop. No matter what your starters solenoid still has to kick in. Just becasue you run the signal wire to the hot post of starter doesnt remove the system. But back to my point. Starters biggest enemy is low current. Period. According to rules we almost all have shut off kill switches. 90% somewhere in between the battery and the starter. Some in the ground side. Have an extra in the shop? Look at the bottom of that switch and check the specs out. They are not rated for what we do. I have started running my battery cable straight to the starter. And the kill is only in the battery feed wire that goes to your smaller switches. It will still work just like officials want. Will still kill the car. But your starter will gain big time. I was about to invest in a whole 16v setup. Now my car whirls just like the 16v cars on 12v. Some of yall probably been doing this for years. But every kill I have seen was wired in the supply to the starter. Just something to think about
I know there used to be a guide floating around for the Toyota starters. Does anyone still have one for doing the conversion? Wouldn't mind having a spare.
Chris Steele 01-31-2018, 11:17 AMQuote:
Originally Posted by JCSullivan00
No photo tutorial, but here's step by step instructions...Alright, here's the deal. A 1987 Toyota pickup starter for the 22R engine @ Autozone Auto Parts part #16674X for $49.99 with one-year warranty. Don't spring the extra $20 bucks for the lifetime warranty starter because your going to modify it and the warranty will be void anyway.
should be able to do it in 35-40 minutes max.
1. Remove starter head, be careful because there's a middle gear that has a shaft through it that comes out when you remove the head and the gear has roller bearings in it that could fall out. But if they do they are simple to put back in the bottom of the gear.
2. Remove the gear drive from the starter head.
3. Disassemble the gear drive by pushing the shaft up and the gear down to expose the lock ring. Remove the lock ring so you can remove the gear, now remove the small spring, large spring and the washer that has inner grooves and trash them. You'll also leave off the lock ring and ring that was at the end of the gear. Re-assemble the gear drive and get ready to do some welding. Put the gear flush with the end of the shaft and weld it there. You will need to leave the long spring that sticks up out of the starter when the gear drive is removed. The two springs to leave out are IN the gear drive.
4. You now need to get ready to cut on the starter head. There are two "rings" where the starter shaft comes through the head. One is the large one that lines the starter up, the other is smaller right around the hole where the gear comes through. You need to cut the inner/small ring so it's level with the outer ring if you were to lay a straight edge across them.
5. Re-assemble the starter gear drive and starter head onto the starter and tighten bolts.
6. Now remove the cover on the other end of the starter that has 3 small screws holding it on. Take the centerpiece out and put some silicone on the contact that has one small wire to help prevent it from breaking and re-assemble that end. Put your jumper wire on and your ready.
ps make sure the starter gear has a back stop made on the gear. some dont they are open .. if it dont have the back stop it will not engage the bert starter gear to the engine flywheel
Thanks Billet....I lost my instructions...this helps.
Save yourself years of frustration and lots of grey hair and even a shortage of hair from pulling it out with these reverse mount stater with idler deals. They are expensive, but the Quarter Master starter system is the only way to go. (if everything is perfect and you do all which is expected above, (lots of good advice, by the way), you will still end up with problems sometimes. We switched to the Quarter Master setup and it is the best decision we ever made. You will never have to worry about the grind of death again.