Blueprinting?

I've been having some discussions lately and a lot of people seem to dismiss the idea of CLM racing helping to control costs. While we have been over this a bunch on this board and discussed the fact that CLM racing isn't inexpensive, by comparison it is a lot less expensive than SLM racing, and even LLM racing to some extent.

My question is, do you need to get your engine blueprinted to run up front? Everyone says you do. Do you know anyone who does not have a blueprinted engine that is winning races regularly?

Also, what are your thoughts on why Blueprinting is even legal? If the idea of CLM racing is to get costs under control then why allow something that just costs more money when everyone would be legal just having run the crate right out of the box.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Before there can be a discussion about this topic, I think we should start by defining some terms.
What does "blueprinting" mean?
That term means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

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Originally Posted by Matt49

Before there can be a discussion about this topic, I think we should start by defining some terms.
What does "blueprinting" mean?
That term means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

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I would say what constitutes Blueprinting is taking a new engine and having it gone through before it ever hits the track. That is where a lot of people disagree when you say a Crate motor is $5500. I don't know how many people I've heard say "you can't win with a $5500 Crate Motor -- you have to spend $10k+ to win races". I can't imagine that is the case myself but a lot of people believe that.

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Originally Posted by W2Racing09

I would say what constitutes Blueprinting is taking a new engine and having it gone through before it ever hits the track. That is where a lot of people disagree when you say a Crate motor is $5500. I don't know how many people I've heard say "you can't win with a $5500 Crate Motor -- you have to spend $10k+ to win races". I can't imagine that is the case myself but a lot of people believe that.

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Okay...so blueprinting means "having it gone through". What does "having it gone through" mean? What is the person "going through" the motor doing? Machining parts? Replacing parts? Checking for faulty parts?

We had a 4 year old Hendren engine that had several laps on it when we started the 2015 season, we won 4 features with it. We were leading the feature at Brownstown when it blew up, so I ordered a new one from a GM dealer, put it in, and won the next weekend at Brownstown, we won 4 more crate features & 2 ) $2000 to win open features with that motor. Also won the ILMS points championship. I'm not saying the blue printed motors aren't better, but in our case it wasn't enough to make a difference.

MLR19 is correct...witnessed from in their dust for most 2015.
I don't know where people could be possibly getting this $10K number from unless they are just talking about all of the bolt-ons that you still need above and beyond the cost of the motor itself: carb, carb spacer, water pump, front pulleys, fuel pump, distributor, MSD, plug wires, headers, etc. If you get all quality components, there's $4000 right there on top of cost of the motor itself as it comes from GM.
Hendren is a certified rebuilder so you have to trust that they aren't doing anything illegal to the motors. My guess is that they are simply doing a checklist similar to the one Brad at Race1 will do before shipping you a motor (for a fee). Otherwise, there isn't really much that needs to be done to make the motor perform any better. Maybe there are builders out there that are selling the motors "turn-key" with everything I listed above, but $10K for a GM 604 (bolt-ons not included) is insane. That's either not legal or the person selling it is a scam artist.
Dyno tuning on these motors with timing, carb, carb spacers, headers, etc. might buy you a legal 10-20 HP but that isn't winning races. Good race cars and good drivers are winning races.

MLR19 is correct...witnessed from in their dust for most 2015.
I don't know where people could be possibly getting this $10K number from unless they are just talking about all of the bolt-ons that you still need above and beyond the cost of the motor itself: carb, carb spacer, water pump, front pulleys, fuel pump, distributor, MSD, plug wires, headers, etc. If you get all quality components, there's $4000 right there on top of cost of the motor itself as it comes from GM.
Hendren is a certified rebuilder so you have to trust that they aren't doing anything illegal to the motors. My guess is that they are simply doing a checklist similar to the one Brad at Race1 will do before shipping you a motor (for a fee). Otherwise, there isn't really much that needs to be done to make the motor perform any better. Maybe there are builders out there that are selling the motors "turn-key" with everything I listed above, but $10K for a GM 604 (bolt-ons not included) is insane. That's either not legal or the person selling it is a scam artist.
Dyno tuning on these motors with timing, carb, carb spacers, headers, etc. might buy you a legal 10-20 HP but that isn't winning races. Good race cars and good drivers are winning races.

I think what he is referring to is where they take a new engine apart and verify all specs are the same each head cc's the same each piston weighs the same deck is the same on each cyl etc just making sure it's all exactly the same it would be very time consuming tedious work which equals $$$$ .Does it do any good who knows money is better spent like they are saying dyno time carb tuning etc this is just my opinion.

Back in the day we figured a good balance and blueprint job was worth 40 HP on an average engine. If you are gonna race crates I think tech should make sure the seals are intact and the engine is raced 'as-is' s it came from Mexico...

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Originally Posted by Krooser

Back in the day we figured a good balance and blueprint job was worth 40 HP on an average engine. If you are gonna race crates I think tech should make sure the seals are intact and the engine is raced 'as-is' s it came from Mexico...

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And the same guys will win. But they will buy 10 motors and dyno them all. Keep the best and sell the rest. Like what is happening in imca.

Then lobuck Racer breaks a lifter or something easy to fix. Has to buy a new engine instead of having an honest authorized rebuilder fix it for less money.

Blue printing to me is taking the motor to the minimum and or maximum specs that GM spells out for these motors. Or at least close to them. I think all of the reputable builders will tell you that on the new motors there is very little if any to gain. When you have it rebuilt of course they are gonna machine it to spec. Why wouldn't you?

As far as blueprinting before they are raced that's just one series who seems to have an a$$ for that. So you race it one race and then it's OK to do? If someone wants to dump a few grand into a new motor to pick up a few HP more power to them. It's a waste unless somehow you got a lemon. Your money is better spent on other stuff like they mentioned above.

As far as the post above I think sobe92 was saying if you were not allowed to rebuild them it would not keep costs down. It would hurt more than it would help.

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Originally Posted by stock car driver

No he said clearly that imca racers buy 10 sell 9 which is total bs. I race weekly with the top in the imca nation. Past National champions are always at my weekly show sometimes as many as 7,8,9 of them.

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I guess he did. I didn't pay attention to the imca part of his comment and I'm not up on what imca rules allow.

A lot also comes from the rebuilders & there magical dyno #'s. You hear all the time such & such crate builder is getting over 450 hp.

Best thing to do is run 1 a season or 2 (depending on # of races & leak down) then sell for 3-3500 & put 2k with that @ buy another new one.

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Originally Posted by toyracer

A lot also comes from the rebuilders & there magical dyno #'s. You hear all the time such & such crate builder is getting over 450 hp. Best thing to do is run 1 a season or 2 (depending on # of races & leak down) then sell for 3-3500 & put 2k with that @ buy another new one.

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If I have to buy a new motor every season I'm not so sure I even want a crate motor. We ran built motors in two cars for 8 seasons with 1 refresh on each and ran in top five for nearly all of those races

if u went to a track where one or two won the biggest part of the crate races and brought GM owned motors and randomly passed out the motors to each team i bet the two who won most of the race wouldn't be winning as often.

Talked to a friend this week about this very thing he picked up a blueprinted motor for another racer bill was 3800$$ dyno sheet said 441 HP from a well known builder. He took motor to another dyno with the owners blessings put it on that dyno 418 HP. Then took his untouched 604 used all components carb headers mufflers etc from other engine his motor made 414 HP and it had 2 seasons on it. Note different dynos different numbers. Also not 4 HP cost 3800$$ more kinda pricey don't you think . That 4 HP ain't gonna win or lose you a race.

"Blueprinting" is basically what every REAL engine builder does when he freshens an engine. It only means that if there is a tolerance, he is perfectly within that tolerance. For an extra fee or bragging rights, he might tell you he is on the fast side of that tolerance.
Bolting a crank in and bolting some rods and bearings to it is not blueprinting :)

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Originally Posted by hipower17

if u went to a track where one or two won the biggest part of the crate races and brought GM owned motors and randomly passed out the motors to each team i bet the two who won most of the race wouldn't be winning as often.

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I think you would be wrong more times than not.