? for CIRF

Want to hear your thoughts about this. With ever increasing giant payouts in Dirt Late Model racing, huge payouts in the World of Outlaw sprints and Late Models as well as the excellent Big Block Modifieds, why are the payouts for the USAC Sprints and Midgets trailing big time?

The monstrous money from the Kings Royal and Knoxville Nationals, the SLM shows with 100k and 50-granders getting very common, even the D.I.R.T. Modifieds have run for 50k+ the last 2 weekends. Why are the USAC non-wingers not getting the bank?

Even start money seems to lag very far behind. Thoughts? Just asking and not doggin you.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

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Originally Posted by Late_Model_Mark

Want to hear your thoughts about this. With ever increasing giant payouts in Dirt Late Model racing, huge payouts in the World of Outlaw sprints and Late Models as well as the excellent Big Block Modifieds, why are the payouts for the USAC Sprints and Midgets trailing big time?

The monstrous money from the Kings Royal and Knoxville Nationals, the SLM shows with 100k and 50-granders getting very common, even the D.I.R.T. Modifieds have run for 50k+ the last 2 weekends. Why are the USAC non-wingers not getting the bank?

Even start money seems to lag very far behind. Thoughts? Just asking and not doggin you.


Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

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It's because the talent, skill, bravery and overall quality of the drivers of wing-ding sprint cars, D.I.R.T. Modified's and especially the dirt late models is so far superior to the drivers of wingless sprints. That's the best I can come up with since I'm nothing more than a bleacher jockey.

Back in '88 I was negotiating with USAC to bring their sprint cars to Luxemburg for a one night show with my mods and stock cars.

I liked Roger McClusky until he mentioned their sanction fee would be...cough cough...$60,000 PLUS the purse. Non negotiable. Paid 7 days before the event.

Click....

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Originally Posted by Krooser

Back in '88 I was negotiating with USAC to bring their sprint cars to Luxemburg for a one night show with my mods and stock cars.

I liked Roger McClusky until he mentioned their sanction fee would be...cough cough...$60,000 PLUS the purse. Non negotiable. Paid 7 days before the event.

Click....

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See there Krooser. That's the difference between guys like you and mere bleacher jockeys like myself. You know the inside scoop and have the business information. We just show up, I purchase tickets for my wife and family, enjoy the racing and go home. I really don't care what the sanction fees amount to, or who's driving what chassis combination, who the crew chief is for any given team or any of that. In most cases our group doesn't give a rats ass what the event pays to win. It's the quality of the entertainment and the overall experience that counts.

All that said, the most entertaining events we attend, the ones that we derive the most enjoyment from throughout the season pay the winner of the racing event we're there to see the least in dollars. What some of them pay in national recognition and respect far over shadows any other event paying 50K, 100K, or 175K to win. Car count and winners share has never equated to the best entertainment.

Just for conversation, so the payout does not mean much but the entertainment factor outweighs things right? Curious if the USAC contingent values that sentiment.

Far enough CIRF, I kinda differ on the payout, I think the USAC boys deserve a least a couple of booming payouts.

It is a far cry from being there and I get that, I have watched every WoO Sprint race replay, same with USAC, WoO Late Models and I have found that in my view this 2021 season for the WoO Sprints "overall" has had the most action in the Sprint world.

The Late Models just don't race awesome like they did in the past, bummer.

But I will close and say of the majors, easily, and I repeat easily, the best overall racing with cars constantly coming from deep or at the tail has been the Big-Block and 358 Modifieds. Larger fields, harder to make the show, and so much passing, just my view. I miss Ascot Park!


Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

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Originally Posted by Late_Model_Mark

Just for conversation, so the payout does not mean much but the entertainment factor outweighs things right? Curious if the USAC contingent values that sentiment.

Far enough CIRF, I kinda differ on the payout, I think the USAC boys deserve a least a couple of booming payouts.

It is a far cry from being there and I get that, I have watched every WoO Sprint race replay, same with USAC, WoO Late Models and I have found that in my view this 2021 season for the WoO Sprints "overall" has had the most action in the Sprint world.

The Late Models just don't race awesome like they did in the past, bummer.

But I will close and say of the majors, easily, and I repeat easily, the best overall racing with cars constantly coming from deep or at the tail has been the Big-Block and 358 Modifieds. Larger fields, harder to make the show, and so much passing, just my view. I miss Ascot Park!


Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

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Personally, I've never taken a huge interest in how much an event pays to win. I have far more regard for a balanced payout throughout the finishing order. I harken back to the days when the Belleville Midget Nationals still existed. What kept me going back and driving 18 hours round trip for that event, besides having close friends in Belleville and Kansas in general and the fact that the High Banks is one of the most unique and badass joints in the world was the lucrative payout throughout the finishing order.

The group I'm a part of that attends many dirt racing events throughout the year feel much the same.

We have no idea what the winning share of the purse is for many of the events we look forward to attending the most.

What a race pays to win doesn't really heighten the entertainment quality. We attended both Eldora Million's and neither was all that exciting, especially the late model million. We've also attended POWRi National Midget events inside the Southern Illinois Center in Du Quoin, Illinois that paid a paltry $1,200.00 to win and still ranks as one of the best spectator experiences we've ever witnessed. Bryan Clauson and Thomas Meseraull slugged it out like a combination of a Golden Driller, a Knoxville Nationals win and a World Hundred victory was on the line that night at Du Quoin.

I understand the most hard core meat head (that's repetitive! LOL!) dirt late model hacks crow constantly on how much money their favorite drivers compete for but those top heavy purses do not often equate to the most entertaining racing.

As I said previously, the most coveted prize in dirt racing pays a fraction of what some of the top heavy dirt late model races pay. I suspect bloomy and some others (Tim McCreadie would be someone to ask) would trade a bunch of those top heavy dirt late model wins for a Golden Driller just as Jack Hewitt would trade a bunch of his record number of Eldora wins for a globe. I know this because ol' Jack has told me this himself.

Be aware that I am not at all learned, as some here are, in reference to the dirt late model "landscape" (LOL!) so take my opinion for what it's worth, which is nothing!! I'm also making plans to attend the $50,000.00 to win dirt late model race at The High Banks instead of The Dream at Eldora. GASP! According to the experts of the dirt late model "landscape" that is sacrilegious, Ungodly and Unholy! LOL!!

Gotcha, I would go to Belleville too.


LMM

Mark, here is a current thread on Indiana Open Wheel that answers a few question you might have regarding purses in Sprint Car land.

http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=119407

The payout has nothing to do with the quality of racing you you might see on any given night. No matter what type of racing you're watching. Heck I've seen a better race in the compacts then we did in the late models on some nights.

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Originally Posted by kidrock

The payout has nothing to do with the quality of racing you you might see on any given night. No matter what type of racing you're watching. Heck I've seen a better race in the compacts then we did in the late models on some nights.

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I enjoy reading your thoughts. I think you are correct. Payouts have nothing to do with quality of racing. It may bring in more talent. That’s about it.

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Originally Posted by lurker

Mark, here is a current thread on Indiana Open Wheel that answers a few question you might have regarding purses in Sprint Car land.

http://www.indianaopenwheel.com/showthread.php?t=119407

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I've also read that thread, lurker. Very interesting information from some guys who are 100% involved in the "business". They not only know the "landscape" (whatever the hell that is) but they are directly involved in the financial end of the sport from a car owner/driver perspective. When the investment/expenses vs. the potential return on investments/expenses are tallied up fairly there is much less difference between USAC and some of the other dirt open wheel sanctions who have more high paying races.

The USAC Silver Crown division is a prime example of drawing dam good car counts and not having a huge portion of the purse going to the winner. The 2 one mile dirt tracks regularly draw 40 cars. The division only run a dozen or so races and 1/2 of them are on asphalt. Those races on the mile dirt tracks pay less than $15,000.00 to win but winning them is quite prestigious.

Obviously The Chili Bowl is absolute icon of dirt racing that doesn't pay all that much to the winner but more than makes up for it in national attention and prestige.

What I can ascertain from what I read is it's the much less lucrative season long point fund where USAC is deficient for their teams.

lurker, your one that posts here who makes it enjoyable for some of us to participate. You have no particular ax to grind and your definitely not a tunnel vision meat head fan looking to play oneupmanship! Kudo's sir!

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Originally Posted by kidrock

The payout has nothing to do with the quality of racing you you might see on any given night. No matter what type of racing you're watching. Heck I've seen a better race in the compacts then we did in the late models on some nights.

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Well said, Kid. I'm guilty as charged in regards to being a one division attendee. That is why I love the stand alone events or those with just one support division. That attitude is probably as often as not to my detriment and I've made an effort to pay more attention to the support classes. Where my distaste came into play is from back in the day setting in the stands freezing my ass off 'till after midnight down at Volusia during Speedweeks night after night watching 80 or 90 modified's run 9 or 10 heat races and a couple of B-mains with some taking a half hour to finish. By the sounds of it this weekend the crates have taken up where the modified's left off. As I said, to my detriment I can't forget or let that go!! LOL!


Sorry so long guys, but the subject warrants the length.

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Originally Posted by CIRF

I've also read that thread, lurker. Very interesting information from some guys who are 100% involved in the "business". They not only know the "landscape" (whatever the hell that is) but they are directly involved in the financial end of the sport from a car owner/driver perspective. When the investment/expenses vs. the potential return on investments/expenses are tallied up fairly there is much less difference between USAC and some of the other dirt open wheel sanctions who have more high paying races.

The USAC Silver Crown division is a prime example of drawing dam good car counts and not having a huge portion of the purse going to the winner. The 2 one mile dirt tracks regularly draw 40 cars. The division only run a dozen or so races and 1/2 of them are on asphalt. Those races on the mile dirt tracks pay less than $15,000.00 to win but winning them is quite prestigious.

Obviously The Chili Bowl is absolute icon of dirt racing that doesn't pay all that much to the winner but more than makes up for it in national attention and prestige.

What I can ascertain from what I read is it's the much less lucrative season long point fund where USAC is deficient for their teams.

lurker, your one that posts here who makes it enjoyable for some of us to participate. You have no particular ax to grind and your definitely not a tunnel vision meat head fan looking to play oneupmanship! Kudo's sir!

Well said, Kid. I'm guilty as charged in regards to being a one division attendee. That is why I love the stand alone events or those with just one support division. That attitude is probably as often as not to my detriment and I've made an effort to pay more attention to the support classes. Where my distaste came into play is from back in the day setting in the stands freezing my ass off 'till after midnight down at Volusia during Speedweeks night after night watching 80 or 90 modified's run 9 or 10 heat races and a couple of B-mains with some taking a half hour to finish. By the sounds of it this weekend the crates have taken up where the modified's left off. As I said, to my detriment I can't forget or let that go!! LOL!


Sorry so long guys, but the subject warrants the length.

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I know when my wife used to go she hated the modiied's and would always take that time to get something to eat or go to the restroom. Lord knows she had plenty of time lol. I have to admit if I wouldn't be happy either especially if I was freezing. I remember one night it being so, cold we sat in our trucks until it was our turn to race. I don't believe we made to many changes to the car that night lol.

CIRF, Thanks for the kind words. Same back to you.