Engine problem

Situation: High air temper - [98] - very humid - heat index [105] - battery charger indicated full charge

engine: 441 aluminum with appx. 750 hp and 13-1 compression

problem: During feature had to spin to avoid crash -naturally stalled engine - could not get engine to refire - all we could get was a clicking noise from the starter - what should i check for - i'm think either starter or battery [optima red top] - is there anything else i should check?

Question: What is a bert type starter based on - parts houses need to know this

thanks in advance for your help

i think it is based on a 4.3 chevy s10 starter , also you usually have 2 solenoids , one on starter and another like a ford mounted some where close to starter , mine is mounted to the motor plate , over the years we have had both go bad at one time or another , you can test with a simple test light.....

I believe the Bert style, stems from a Toyota R22 style starter. Someone can confirm that. You can actually buy them from a Auto Parts store and change the nose on it, and they will work.

Run an extra ground strap from the engine to the frame, and make sure all your grounds are clean and prepped.

The extra solenoid is to kill voltage to power to the main power wire to the starter. Only while the extra solenoid is engaged does this wire have power going to it. So if it gets snagged or comes off during racing etc, it will not throw sparks and potentially start a fire. I know of one guy that burnt his shop down, while pulling a motor, without the extra solenoid, so its worth it.

you may be right about the starter krom , my memory is getting a little blurry these days , but my starter button goes to the ford solenoid which engages it , then a wire goes from it to the starter along with a small wire that goes to the trip side of the starter solenoid , thing is , i cant even remember why we do this , just always have...lol.....

Yeah that wire going to the starter is dead until the Ford Soleniod is engaged, i always considered it a safety thing.

I wish someone would verify the starter, i thought it was Toyota, pretty sure. We got a good, knock on wood, them dam starters are a fickle lot, you can get a crap one, or a good one seems like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kromulous

Yeah that wire going to the starter is dead until the Ford Soleniod is engaged, i always considered it a safety thing.

I wish someone would verify the starter, i thought it was Toyota, pretty sure. We got a good, knock on wood, them dam starters are a fickle lot, you can get a crap one, or a good one seems like.

---

It is a Toyota 22R starter.

your right masters , i got it confused with the 4.3 gm starter the drag boy,s run , i knew i had a box of those old 22r starters saved for something.......

A hot motor requires more power to crank than a cool motor does. Obviously, it could be the starter or battery, but if you are running a solenoid, I would also look really closely at the condition of the connections on the solenoid. I have seen these connections corrode and char up from the amp load. I never had any luck with the Optima batteries in a race car, I have had and seen several go bad prematurely. I like a battery that is made for a semi truck, they are usually 900cca and they were about $90 last time that I checked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LRtireCHANGER

A hot motor requires more power to crank than a cool motor does. Obviously, it could be the starter or battery, but if you are running a solenoid, I would also look really closely at the condition of the connections on the solenoid. I have seen these connections corrode and char up from the amp load. I never had any luck with the Optima batteries in a race car, I have had and seen several go bad prematurely. I like a battery that is made for a semi truck, they are usually 900cca and they were about $90 last time that I checked.

---

I think he's in 16v territory. He doesn't mention what he has for a battery though.

load test that red top optima. seen a bunch of the new ones show good voltage but not have enough amperage to crank one over.

been using those red top optima,s a long time and never had any trouble out of them , maybe just luck , IDK , but i went out earlier to check and one of them is a 08 model and still going strong.......

Older optimas=great. Newer ones=junk. I was selling them for a while. Ive had enough. Never again.

89 Toyota 4x4 truck 22r manual transmission.
Takes about 10-15 minutes to convert it to racing starter
If your solenoid is clicking, check the jumper wire on the starter. Or get a Napa heavy duty solenoid.

Thanks for all your help -- found that the battery box hold down bolt nub on the side had worn a hole through the side of the battery and shorted out the starter -- i guess there is a first time for everything -- changed to an optima yellow top -- suggestion -- put plasticc on bottom and sides of battery to protect it

What year Toyota and they direct bolt to Bert bell only or will they bolt to gm block? What needs done to convert? Thanks guys, new trick to cheaper racing I like

Chris Steel posted this years ago:

No photo tutorial, but here's step by step instructions...Alright, here's the deal. A 1987 Toyota pickup starter for the 22R engine @ Autozone Auto Parts part #16674X for $49.99 with one-year warranty. Don't spring the extra $20 bucks for the lifetime warranty starter because your going to modify it and the warranty will be void anyway.

should be able to do it in 35-40 minutes max.

1. Remove starter head, be careful because there's a middle gear that has a shaft through it that comes out when you remove the head and the gear has roller bearings in it that could fall out. But if they do they are simple to put back in the bottom of the gear.
2. Remove the gear drive from the starter head.
3. Disassemble the gear drive by pushing the shaft up and the gear down to expose the lock ring. Remove the lock ring so you can remove the gear, now remove the small spring, large spring and the washer that has inner grooves and trash them. You'll also leave off the lock ring and ring that was at the end of the gear. Re-assemble the gear drive and get ready to do some welding. Put the gear flush with the end of the shaft and weld it there. You will need to leave the long spring that sticks up out of the starter when the gear drive is removed. The two springs to leave out are IN the gear drive.
4. You now need to get ready to cut on the starter head. There are two "rings" where the starter shaft comes through the head. One is the large one that lines the starter up, the other is smaller right around the hole where the gear comes through. You need to cut the inner/small ring so it's level with the outer ring if you were to lay a straight edge across them.
5. Re-assemble the starter gear drive and starter head onto the starter and tighten bolts.
6. Now remove the cover on the other end of the starter that has 3 small screws holding it on. Take the centerpiece out and put some silicone on the contact that has one small wire to help prevent it from breaking and re-assemble that end. Put your jumper wire on and your ready.

ps make sure the starter gear has a back stop made on the gear. some dont they are open .. if it dont have the back stop it will not engage the bert starter gear to the engine flywheel

Googled and found a pick, definitely bellhousing bolt on starter. Thanks million for instructions. Bookmarked this page for future

Just to confirm what Billet posted above, i rebuilt 2 this off past off season and it was very easy and they both work great !