Is he the best sprint car driver of all time? How good is he compared to the King who has 20 titles? Thoughts ?
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Is he the best sprint car driver of all time? How good is he compared to the King who has 20 titles? Thoughts ?
Schatz is pretty dam good. Obviously top 5, maybe top 2 or 3. Steve Kinser stands out above the rest in regards to winged sprint car racing. He has the gaudy statistics similar in scope to Richard Petty's stock car numbers. Both of those guys have records that will never be broken. That said, there are those more learned than I who would say either one of those guys were not the best ever and their point of view is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajflyboy
Opinions can be formed as to who's the greatest of most any endeavor but opinions are usually arbitrary, mine included. Apples to apples comparison of stats is the only purely factual way to do it but even that method is inherently flawed.
Schatzy is right there, no question. In my own personal little world diversity of driver accomplishments is the measure which carries the most credence. Schatzy seems to be above average in a dirt late model and he gave a very good account of himself at The Chili Bowl Midget Nationals. Kinser, on the other hand, won races driving USAC Silver Crown cars and wingless 410 sprint cars and actually qualified for the Saturday night A-main at The Chili Bowl but his bread and butter, like Schatzy, was winged 410's.
Here's where the arbitrary side of things enters the conversation. It's been said that A.J. Foyt may well have been the greatest sprint car driver ever. I personally believe Anthony Joseph Foyt Jr. would have compiled gaudy stats like Kinser and Schatzy had he focused his entire career on sprint car racing. No way to prove that but it's a very compelling argument.
And so it goes!
I think I agree. AJ Foyt could very well be the best ever to drive a sprint car (and he certainly had the most courage) rather dangerous back in those days. I always forget just how much sprint car racing AJ did.
A.J.'s sprint car days were WAY before my time. I only remember his final years of driving at Indianapolis. From what I've read A.J. was not only literally fearless in a sprint car he was very, very good at it. In those days it was a major accomplishment just to stay alive!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajflyboy
I read an article in Sprint Car & Midget magazine several years ago about A.J. racing sprint cars at the Indiana State Fairgrounds Mile. Not Champ Cars or Silver Crown Cars but sprint cars without wings on that big ol' mile track. He won both ends of a twin 25 show that was held after A.J. had qualified for the Indy 500!! I'm bettin' his Indy 500 car owner was a bit nervous!
I'm not positive but I don't believe Schatzy has ever raced a sprint car on a mile dirt track and dam sure he hasn't raced a sprint car without a wing on a mile. That doesn't make him any less talented or brave and I'm sure if the opportunity arose Schatzy would be up to the challenge. But racing and winning sprint car races driving a wingless sprint car on a mile dirt track is an accomplishment modern drivers will never have to be challenged with!
I remember going to WoO sprint show at the Springfield mile back in the late 90's. I thought Schatz was there in the #15 Parker Store car..
I was at Springfield that day, as well. Donny might well have been in action that day. He may have also raced a winged 410 at Syracuse back when the WoO Sprint Cars were part of Super Dirt Week.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby_32d
I admitted that I wasn't positive and if, in fact, Schatzy raced a winger on a mile dirt track I humbly stand corrected. One thing I would wager a sizable amount of my hard earned money on is Schatzy never raced a wingless 410 on a 1 mile dirt track. PM me if you want in on any of that action.
On a side note, what's remarkable about the WoO event at The Springfield Mile is that Sammy Swindell turned what is generally believed to be the fastest average lap speed ever accomplished on a dirt track. 24.719 which equates to just under 146 MPH average! The Springfield track record for late models is 3 seconds more and over 15 MPH slower! Sammy was cookin' that day!
It was either the year of or year before Darren Miller set the track record that Tommy Scott came out for a few practice laps during the Fall Nationals after qualifying and he was in the high 24's that day. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Darren's lap was 27.649? I just remember being down on the lower level as he went by and thought for sure that wing would fly apart.
Darren Miller's Springfield track record stands at 27.581 which figures out to 130.525 MPH.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby_32d
We spoke to one of the Illinois State Troopers who were using their speed gun to clock the sprint cars at the end of the backstretch going into turn #3 and they said Sammy, on his first qualifying lap, drove into turn #3 at 174 MPH. THAT is COOKIN' on a dirt track!!!!
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...1c&oe=5F24023E
That is getting it! But an average speed of 106 mph on one of those flat track bikes is equally impressive. Great stuff here!
Couldn't agree more, gumby!! Those flat track riders are in a category of their own! Chris Carr flat out owned the Springfield Mile and the Peoria, Illinois TT race for what seems like a couple of decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby_32d
Jack Hewitt once told me that those flat track motorcycle riders had stones the size of bowling balls. Coming from Mr. Hewitt that is extremely high praise!!
Sammy. He puts fans in the stands 👍
AJ, in my mind, was the best period.
Stock cars, midgets, sprints, big cars, Indy, Daytona, LeMans...no one will ever be better,
Once again, Krooser, there is ample room for discussion. Mario did everything A.J. did accept LeMans. But, he won the Formula 1 World Championship that A.J. never did. Saying Foyt is the best is solidly valid, no question. But Mario is on a level plain with A.J. and some more learned that I would point out a few of Mario's accomplishments that even A.J. can't match. I truly believe it's a wash between those two guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krooser
I personally (who cares, right?! LOL!) lean towards Mario. A.J. was a clean driver, gotta' give him that. Hell, he was so much better than everyone else he didn't need to rough anyone up to pass and/or win. But A.J. could be a flaming A-hole towards people who didn't really deserve his crap. I saw him in action at The Springfield Mile and haven't been an A.J. fan since. The deal with Luyendyk at Texas was totally uncalled for and Arie turned out to be right. A.J. also had Tony Hulman and the Hulman family along with USAC deep in his pocket similar to the way arnhead had Billy France Jr. and NASCAR in his pocket.
The personal side of the comparison aside the accomplishments of A.J. and Mario compare quite favorable to one another.
I smile a little every time I think of this little anecdote. When Mario was very young and just making a name for himself he used to get Christmas cards in July. Mario said those who sent them did so because they were sure Mario wouldn't live 'till December! True story! LOL!