Ultimate Series tire test rules. All series should try this. Let them prove Innocence

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Originally Posted by blncfn57

All this talk about how rampant this tire doctoring is, you'd think we would have people being caught every week instead of maybe a couple once a year.

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Its my personal opinion that more people are cheating. Its just the sauce makers keep making the sauce better, and undetectable, within the lab parameters.

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Originally Posted by flagone

What exactly does Hoosier have to gain by having a bad benchmark exactly? Explain how that helps them in any possible way. It doesn't help them sell tires. It doesn't gain them any PR. It just makes no sense.

A benchmark is simply a sample of the same batch/date code. Every time there is a different date code produced Hoosier provides a benchmark sample for it. Then all tires from that date code are compared to that benchmark when they are lab tested.

When you say transparency let me ask you this. Do you eat Kentucky Fried Chicken? Do you know the recipe? No because it's proprietary. No company is going to give away the formulas for making any consumable. The whole Hoosier conspiracy makes no sense. BTW AR provides the same benchmarks for their date codes as well. And the reason they don't give more information is because the backyard chemists use that information to make more tire dope. And if you think its not true ask some of these racers that have been around it and through it.

I had a Illinois racer message me last night to tell me about another technique that has been employed recently. It is unreal the lengths guys are going to with this stuff.

It is possible that AR could become more widely used. In fact that is already happening with some tracks and series. I think the issue for them is they are a smaller company. I would speculate that their production is about 1/3 of Hoosier's in regards to volume. But as they ramp up production the cost of the tire will also have to go up to cover the costs of producing more. And inevitably if they keep going head to head Hoosier will introduce additional compounds to compete with them. Because at the end of the day 99.9% of racers don't care if it lasts longer if the tire is slower.

And when I managed SAS in the 2000s I had teams that had as many as 45 wheels and tires with them at any given race. I am glad you survived it because a lot of teams didn't (including my little team). And I have already seen it. My SAS race at Screven there were racers that had at least 25-30 wheels and tires with them. And none of these guys I am talking about were going to Florida. They had both ARs and Hoosiers.

I think that people take me for a Hoosier homer but I am not. I have always been about having a choice in brands as long as they are apples to apples and in limited compounds. But right now we cannot do that because the ARs are not the same as the Hoosiers. I just want fewer compounds. Its why I was such an advocate for the NLMT rule. I am not happy that the compounds were different than what I thought (one of them was supposed to be 1350 rubber which for my money is the best tire they ever made).

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So youre telling us, the racers and fans, that you as a series does not see the benchmark? Theres no conspiracy theory, just open transparency. Do you think by posting how many ppm's of a certain illegal compound in a sample, is gonna stop the bonafide "professional" doper. Anyone can Google search a lab to get the elements of any compound, its not a secret!

Simplest tire rule is NO tire rule. "Run what you brung". Everyone will gravitate to the same tire eventually. Dictating specifics is what NASCAR does. Let's hope dirt track racing goes the opposite direction of NASCAR.

I agree with flagone on having a limit on the number/type of compounds. Any one who around in the '70s-'80s era when 4 row tire racks on the trailers were commonly filled to the brim with assorted types should agree. I was at the GOAT's shop in Arkansas around 2000 and he showed me their tire operation with nearly 200 wheels and tires mounted and several more unmounted. One of the major reasons we took a break for a few years when a family team like ours just couldn't keep up. Certainly don't miss those days.

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Originally Posted by jog49

Simplest tire rule is NO tire rule. "Run what you brung". Everyone will gravitate to the same tire eventually. Dictating specifics is what NASCAR does. Let's hope dirt track racing goes the opposite direction of NASCAR.

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Dirt track went full NASCAR when the saw Rumleys heim joints

while i applaud the series for having a second lab option, i think that is just peace of mind for the race teams more than second guessing the original lab. If you didn't trust the original lab, you wouldn't contract with them.

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Originally Posted by ZERO25

So youre telling us, the racers and fans, that you as a series does not see the benchmark? Theres no conspiracy theory, just open transparency. Do you think by posting how many ppm's of a certain illegal compound in a sample, is gonna stop the bonafide "professional" doper. Anyone can Google search a lab to get the elements of any compound, its not a secret!

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Really, post up the elements of some tires for us here then. Pick some simple ones like IMCA hoosier or American racer g60.

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Originally Posted by lurker

Its just the sauce makers keep making the sauce better, and undetectable, within the lab parameters.

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Not if you listen to Brian Carter, ain't anything getting by his lab!! Of course, I'm just poking a little fun, I do not have any skin in the game anymore so it really doesn't matter to me. The only thing I will say is, if I can't watch a race and know who the winner is until weeks later, my interest level for live events declines.

You are not alone sir…….and I’m more than just a casual fan. I’ll watch and enjoy almost any kind of racing and have found myself gravitating to other forms of motor sports to spend personal and sponsor money at. Drag racing(especially drag boats) has filled a nice void for my power and speed fix.

I still go to a bunch of national and regional series events( going to one tonight in lakeview most likely)I just go knowing the winner won’t be decided for a few weeks and I’m going just to see some friends,cook a little racetrack vittles and watch some talented guys race. The live results mean nothing and the real checkered flag waives in the foothills of North Carolina a few weeks later…….nope, it’s not a sustainable solution to cultivate new fans or drivers.

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Originally Posted by stock car driver

Really, post up the elements of some tires for us here then. Pick some simple ones like IMCA hoosier or American racer g60.

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natural and synthetic rubber, carbon black, silica, numerous chemical ingredients, antioxidants