Printable View
I'm looking to get some shocks gone over and have been told that my afco's can be updated from the 'old style monroe' valving to the new style 'deflected disc' valving .. anybody happen to know what any of that means and why the newer is better ?
Thank you
I worked for Carrera Racing shocks for 6 years, we made both deflective disc shocks and other types of valved shocks. Every shock in the world has a type of valve, along with oil & some sort of nitrogen gas for rod displacement(Gas cell or floating piston). I'm guessing your model shocks are what is known as a dual tube design, because all mono-tubes use deflective disc valving. What valving type you have isn't nearly as important as what type, "curve" you have. Valving curves come in 3 types: Linear, Progressive & Digressive. You need the right curve type for your type track.Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX10
Linear is best suit for Rough surfaces.
Progressive is best for Wet, Heavy surfaces.
Digressive is best for Dry, Slick surfaces.
I could get more technical, but it wouldn't help you as much as just saying you need to determine what type tracks you run on and communicate to your shock builder what curves your looking for. The valve type is more of a function of the shock design and less the performance. Some companies like to taught deflective disc as "New" technology, but it was invented by a frenchman in the 20's or 30's. The valving design employed by PRO for example was designed in the 40's by a man at Gabriel shocks, so in reality that is a "Newer" design.
Not as simple as I was hoping !
So are you saying I shouldn't bother with the $70.00 "upgrade" to the "newer" style deflection disc ? The 2 shocks I'm sending in are ~ 10 year old twin-tube AFCO's, but they have very little "race" time on them. It's unlikely that I'll be changing shocks for dry / wet / etc conditions, so I need to shoot for middle of the road. They are 9" 4-valve shocks that I plan to put on the rear of a Shaw crate car and race locally.
Here's the info from their site, and thanks a bunch for your comments .. I appreciate it :)
http://www.bsb-mfg.com/gifs/afco-repair-web.jpg
What I'm reading is it's just a conversion to deflective disc they are offering... Just changing the type of valve won't, on it's own, do anything for you. I'm not knocking BSB, but they are in business to sell parts. Do you have a local builder you can contact who's familiar with tracks in your area? If not, I'd default to AFCO for upgraded valve curves, a lot has changed in the last 10 years. JMO
BSB is also a shock tuner and even have their own line of latemodel dampers.... If you call them they could revalve your shocks to follow their current philosophies.
Ghopper
Cool, thats good. Maybe they can help get him going. A sharp builder can make any brand mimic another brands curves or do custom curves, depending on your needs, regardless of valving type. I'd recommend valving to your own needs rather than just copying someone else, but it can be done and is an option. To do shocks right you really need a nice dyno, hand stroking won't cut it. I know for instance QA1 sells some of there shocks as owner rebuildable and the kit comes with a drill bit, but in my experience this isn't as accurate or complete as what is needed. If you don't have the funds to buy a nice dyno, then relying on a competent builder is a fine alternative. This could be the factory or an independent builder with experience in the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghopper
Here's more info on their conversion. I just need to know if it's worth doing on a local casual-racer crate car, or if I should just opt to get them tested and repaired as is (less expensive).
http://www.rtach.com/pics/convert.png
Revalve Yes, Conversion No.Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX10
If you were gonna chase the FASTRAK/NeSmith points then I'd say upgrade your whole package to double adjustable. If you run one or two tracks the same every week, just get a revalve and run'em till you kill'em.
Sounds good. Being that I could be in to either dry or heavy conditions, I guess the "linear" valve option is the way to go ? How do I request this setup ? The shocks are a 4/4 valve right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by F22 RAPTOR
Do "linear" , "digressive" and "progressive" refer in any way to the compression and rebound numbers or are those independent values ?
If there are documents out here on the internet(s) that you want to point me at, I'd be happy to do some reading so I don't have to keep asking you so many questions .. thanks :)
Actually other than the "bsb conversion", Afco as a company has started going to all deflective disc technology to help make all of there shocks more consistent builds out of the factory.
to be fair this conversion was something that bsb has been doing since mid 2009 well before afco started to change over.
I got some suggested valving from Kevin Shaw so I'm going to go ahead and send these up to BSB and get the upgrade to deflective for $70.00 and revalve to his specifications.
I should win every race I enter now .... right ? :)
DLD are u still on those 1994 pull offs? Then my answer is NO...haha...Good luck buddy, holla at me sometime. Not at same work place. Hit me in a PM for new contact info sometime!
Hey biz !Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkit
Yes, I still have STICKER tires from 1998 ! lol :)
PM sent.
Ok, im going to chime in here now! Sobe92 , you are WRONG about when Afco switched to deflective disc stuff. They made the change in 2006 & 2007, but, there stuff can be built to as good as any. For the person or persons trying to copy one curve from a manufacturer to another - you are MISSING THE BOAT!!! You must understand flow, # of ports in use and the affect that both have for tension to create the desired valving. Its funny to listen to some of you that "UNDERSTAND" all this shock stuff and you really don't. You guys make me laugh A LOT!
Wow, very well put there "GO VOLS"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Vols
Go Vols - you are also making an assumption that could be wrong. The person who said they could imitate one builder's damper curves within another brand of shock maybe using more accurate test methods than a sinusoidal dyno. You or I do not know what they are using (track playback, step input, frequency sweep correlation). So some reservation could be used before throwing CAPTIALS at them.
From a racer perspective, I believe you should just buy the damper that you want instead of trying to copy it. Unless that is fun for you.
Ghopper
You make me laugh a lot too with your smug all caps comments. I guess your not as sharp as you think you are if you can't make your shocks mimic another brand/design dampening curve. I don't have to know what parts are in your shocks or number of ports or the flow, I know what's in mine and what to change to make it do what's needed. You see there are so many variables from one brand or design to another, knowing what you've got is pointless. If you take into account the rod displacement differences or the piston diameter differences or valving style(deflective disc or slotted carrier & bypass) from shock brand/style there is no need to know what particular parts you may have used. All I need to know is what parts I need in mine to achieve the desired dampening effects. Look at that, I managed to respond without using a full line of caps to do it. No I don't use a dyno that scribbles with a pencil and no I don't use a drill and hand stroking to compare results. For my money a Roerhig is the best dyno to use and only the highest quality synthetic oils, I prefer Motul, but there are other good ones. Go Dawgs!Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Vols
F22 Raptor is right...
Professional race teams have there shocks built to what they want them. Doesnt matter what brand of shock there using at all.
I dont mean just valving. The shocks movement is controlled top to bottom. High and low shaft speed. Racer X maybe on Integra and want his shock to be 40# @ 3inches. And Racer Y may want his Integra's to be 30# @ 3 inches. Theses numbers are just examples but im just saying there no magic valve for one car or driving style to the next. You have to know exactly what you got, and then you can start working on what you want.
Thank you Jason. Go Dawgs!