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Anyone using this new thing? Do you feel its the cats meow? Is it teaching us more than just the tire is a spring and sometimes more spring than the actual spring? Is it gonna be main stream soon like shock/spring raters and smashers to the point you can't compete without it? Is it just another thing to convince racers they have to have?
What are you going to do with the data? There's no way to alter the rate other than air pressure. There is nothing you can do to alter the damping. You have to run the correct air pressure to have the correct contact patch size at the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardracing
I'd save my time and money working within the things you can control.
Even a smasher is unnecessary, but it helps at times.
I follow some people on the social media and Youtube that host and instruct several of these chassis schools. I'm not sure why I find interesting, novelty maybe, but anyway, One of the lastest ones advertised a "new must have tech" device called a tire rater. Basically a modified spring smasher for wheel and tires. I assume the benefit is going to advertised as consistency when you measure and record 100's of tires and group matched sets of stickers and/or scrubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSbilt_Racer
Isn't racing always about selling something to somebody to fund your own? The industry is ripe for snake oil salesman selling promises of trades of cash for success. Once in a while, something will take off and go viral so that everybody has to have one or you might as well go home.
Now, I don't get caught up in the hype at all, however I was curious to the thoughts of the others in more elite classes of racing then me. Seems kinda gimmicky to me but hell, I'll never be at the level these guys are either. I'm still on a 9" and scales LMAO.
Sounds like your thoughts are aligned with mine. That body on moran's car is definitely worth more than a tire rater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardracing
If you were buying 100s of tires and casting off rejects, there maybe something there, as you suggest. That isn't in the cards for folks like me.
Curious, Why did you mention him specifically?
The new pics on the InternetQuote:
Originally Posted by Lizardracing
Some of how much use you would get out of something like that is:
1. If the spring rate is way off what you normally get with the tires you run, can you just go out and buy another tire without a thought?
Lets just say they vary a bunch (just for argument sake), are you able to just go out and buy 20 tires to use 5, 10, or 15 of them and sit on the others. Surely Hoosier will swap out those unwanted tires for you and not give you any static about wanting to do so?
2. If they vary a bunch do you have the other data equipment or testing time to figure out which rate you want where and when? Basically can you use/understand that data and the cost that goes with sorting that data out?
For most of us, that money would be better spent elsewhere but if you got everything else test equipment wise and no real budget it's just more data to be gained. Now the argument could be what did you gain for that money spent?
Masters....
Got ya...I'll check it out. Seems interesting.
Billet....
1) No, not me, I get what I get off the truck. 1 or 2 at a time as ALMOST all us do. Maybe the tire guy needs one and HE can sell matched sets in spring rate and roll out. His time is worth something so probably at additional costs like the guys selling pre-siped/grooved/ground tires. I know of one parts guy local, sells them already on rims marked with rollout and a generic 12psi.
HAHAHA! you and me and everyone knows Hoosier nor AR gives a (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) about exchanges of any kind. Hoosier even tries to control the area you can sell them in. The best you could is become a dealer yourself and sell the ones that didn't meet your existing program.
For your weekly guy, I doubt they would ever get enough seat time to see a consistency advantage. Same as the tire siping and grooving. It's massive amount of data and accurate notes to weed through for a very small gain. Very labor intensive. Maybe national series guys have the time and manpower for it. For me, by the time I collected enough data to be useful, the data would be outdated. On that note, I feel like most of the chassis schools are basically teaching weekly checks. Rusty bolts, loose bolts, bent parts, something leaking, etc....will save a racer from himself. The basic of set ups haven't changed much over the years. It's still shocks, springs, bar angles and driver feel with the biggest difference is how we measure it.
I'm sure I can find about 50 things to better spend my money on BUT, and the big BUT, when the bigger budget guys race weekly or bi weekly, 60+ shows a year it's just that much harder to compete.
One guy local, actually 3 guys local, have regional traveling budgets on a home town track. One guy runs away with the show weekly and has won all but 1 all last year. That's 22 of 23 nights. The other two swap for 2nd and 3rd finishes. The rest of us are playing for a 5th place win. Car counts suffer big time because of it. Say the big budget guy buys one of these things, racing 2- times a week, in a year, he's collected all he needs for a 23 night winning streak. 2nd and 3rd now feel they need the advantage too and buy one, the other 15 of us....Well, we quit racing and go fishing....We can't keep up and it got boring or we concede and concentrate the social aspect.
This principle applies to every aspect of racing anywhere and most likely any competitive sport. It has since I got involved 45 years ago anyway. The more we know, the more it costs.
I wonder if this tire rater thing is gonna be another one of those things.
I assume this has some value for characterizing front tires rolling in a straight line. However, rears, and front in a corner, have all kinds of different torsionals acting on the plies that will change everything.
I don't see how these machines have any way to characterize what happens to the rate when these torsionals are applied.
I'd be interested in seeing any differences between a new and well used side wall stiffness it might show us.
What I would do that info...I haven't any idea. Probably the same as before I knew, change the set up to chase it. Maybe knowing more about what I'm chasing helps. Kinda like front and rear roll centers.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and take some educated guesses here, so. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardracing
I would say most of the people that would have one, wouldn't run a tire long enough to get into much of a sidewall stiffness change. It does happen for sure, but how long that takes I don't know for sure. A Drag tire will loose stiffness as I've seen that myself will the big tire no prep cars just by feel not any real data, but after about 8 to 10 runs you can feel a fairly big difference and they tire shake easier. Now, that is huge HP cars like No prep kings type stuff and reasonably glued tracks after a few cars make hits and lay down rubber.
Shrugs
Yes, for sure. way back in my younger days drag racing in my late teens, a set of slicks had a life expectancy and they tended to begin giving up 60' times the closer you got to the wear indicators but at the same time, we never did anything different in the 10 second bracket's though, never took out clutch or adjusted tire pressure or shocks changes or nothing. Just bought new ones and kept at it. Now I'm speaking of the 60' times slowing down .001-.003 but the driver RT was off by more that that so maybe there was something to the sidewall taking longer to wrap up. There were so many variables though, most of em you can't do anything about, there may just be something to sidewall changes in dirt cars too, but we ain't far enough along in technology to make use of it.
Philosophically speaking, I don't think we should anyway. The unpredictable nature of dirt racing keeps it interesting. If we were to eliminate too many, would it not end up like NASCAR and NHRA and too technical for TV?
Yeah I know...I think too much.