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  1. #1

    Default Looking for a leaf spring set up?????

    I have recently just bought a 01' rayburn chassis. It has a camaro clip on it. I would much rather just switch it over to a 3 link coil car but everybody tells me that with the rite set up a leaf car can be fast. Sooo i am going to try it out but i am looking to get the car as tight as possible and i have no idea what i am doin with a leaf car!! It is an old limited but where i race at they are considered pro stocks now. Any help and or opinions would be great. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    108

    Default

    FastBoys Leaf setup( Info )
    FASTBOYS leaf tech(get it here)
    Let's try this one more time
    I am not too good at this typing and spelling thing, but I think you can get what you need to know about this setup
    from this thread
    I will start with a good base setup for what we will call the Fast Boys leaf setup.
    Forget everything you ever knew about leaf springs (also most of what you do on bar cars is backwards from the way this deal works)When a bar car gets up on the bars the l/r tire walks forward, making the car loose. With this setup when the car hikes up on the l/r and the pinion rotates up the l/r tire goes back (making the car tighter).
    Let's start with taking a standard stacked leaf car and making it into a fast boy's rear.
    There are two ways to do this, the first is the easiest and would be a good way to start (easier to drive until you get
    the feel for how tight it will be to drive).Leave the r/r leaf the way it comes(can use a 150 or 175 Ibs stacked leaf), instead of clamping it to the rear-end with u bolts you need to float the r/r spring mount on a bird cage. Leave the r/r shackels alone .Make sure you mount the r/r shock off of the rear end tube (instead of the lower spring plate) or it will wheel hoop.
    Rebuilding the L/R leaf
    Next you need to redo the l/r leaf spring and mounts on that side. This is the same for both the mono and stacked
    setup, and the 2 stacked leafs setup we are talking about now.
    1 have mostly used afco leafs in the past but I do like the new landrums that I have been working with now. I take
    an afco 31 and rebuild it to make it hook on slick tracks. Take and cut the bands off and move the 2nd leaf down
    (the one next to the main ) and redrill the center hole 3"s back ( moving the front of it forward). Now take the 3rd
    leaf and turn it around 180 (front to back) and use the same hole. Now take the 4th small leaf and throw it away.
    While you have it apart you will see that the main leaf doesn't have enough arche in it. I like to rearch it so that
    when it is standing on the floor with the eyes down it is about 7 or 8"s tall at the center pin. Only put the arch in the
    front of the spring (from the eye forward).also I like to add some arch from the pin forward in the other 2 leafs also.
    When you bolt it back together only band the front of the spring (not the back).
    What this has done is made the front of the spring stronger to deal with the increased load that this setup has on it, but the spring rate is now softer (letting it flatten out at ride height) and the extra arch will still want to come back into it when the l/r is hiked up (keeping the l/r tire on the ground and digging).It is important that you DON'T try to run the standard alum lowering block and u bolts on this deal (they will break). I run a 2" block on the r/r and a steel hand made bracket on the l/r that would be like running a 3" block. If you buy the parts from R C for this it is important that you weld the l/r bracket all the way around the rear end (the l/r is the only thing doing the lifting and it will try to tear everything over there off).
    L/R Shackle
    Now for the l/r shackle. This is where you will tune for heavy or dry tracks. You need to be able to put the top mount forward so that when at ride height the shackle has about 40 degrees of angle in it .I put my mounts on top of the frame rail and run a long 11" set of shackles. If you hook a tape in the 5/8 ths hole that the front spring eye goes in and measure back to the top of the rear frame rail make a mark at 51 "s and 53.5"s this is where the top shackle bushings need to weld on. Run the front hole for dry tracks and the back hole for heavy tracks when you want to take the wheelie out.
    Shocks
    As for shocks on this deal, softer is better. I run 93 on r/r 94 on l/r and a pair of 74 s on the front. You don't run any 90/10 wrap-up shocks or any pull bars or 5th arms on here (been there tried that didn't work as good.) Make sure you mount the l/r shock so that it has about 6"s to come out and only 3 in when at ride height. Also keeping the back of the car lower is faster with this setup.
    Mono - coil R/R setup
    This is the full blown (Full Tilt) way to do this deal. It takes a bit to get used to driving ,and is not for everyone The
    car will be tight when you pick the gas back up, and also have more side bite going in. You can drive the car way
    into the turn and when the tail comes out and most cars would have to wait to get back on it till the tail is back
    under you, instead you pick the gas up while the tail is out and it will bring the tail back under you. This is because
    of two things, first the l/r spring is the only thing that is putting load in the rear end when you pick up the gas, so it
    gains a bunch of l/r bite when you are on the gas (probably gains around 200 to 300 Ibs or so) but when your off
    the gas and on the brakes going in it gains r/r giving you more side bite.
    The other thing that this does is the roll steer. Bar cars move the r/r back and the L/R forward when they get on the
    gas. This makes the car loose and so they have to run more wedge to keep the car straight coming off the turn,
    that makes the car loose going in and loose through the center.
    With this set-up when you're on the gas the L/R tire goes back in the wheel well and tightens up the car. The mono
    on the r/r is all that is pushing the car forward on that side and is floated so the wrap-up is out of the picture. This
    makes the mono s up some and moves the r/r tire forward in the wheel well. This roll steer along with the way the
    r/r coil is mounted makes the car tight when you're on the gas and tight when you're on the brakes.
    Here's how to do the r/r.
    Put a mono on the r/r (I use the main leaf out of an old stacked leaf).You have to float it on a bird cage just like our
    2 stacked deal was. Here is where you have to get this correct at. Mounting the coil on the r/r.You have to mount it
    on the back side of the rear end tube and to the tube itself (not the bird cage or the lower plate).try to get it about
    7"s from the center line of the axle (much like a coil over mount on a l/m clamp bracket would look).Try to get the
    top of the coil in about 15 degrees and also back 15 degrees.
    I run a 125 coil spring over there, but most guys like to start with around 150 .Mount the shock off the front of the
    tube and go in and forward on the top mounts.
    R C race cars sells all of these mounts if you can't build them.
    Set-up
    Here are some basic numbers for my type leaf car. Each car is a bit different, but try to keep the rear and left side
    percentages close to these.
    I scale my car without driver (always have) keep all lead to the left and to the rear. Try to get left side at or above
    54, and rear at or around 60 at the end of the feature, I run a long wheelbase car so adding my lead to the very
    back of the car doesn't make the car swing the tail like it will on a short wheelbase car,
    I can get these numbers with the car weighing about 2300 after the race. On the 2 stacked leaf setup start with
    around 50 to 75 Ibs heavier on the R/R tire than the l/r tire .On the r/r mono and coil deal you need to start with 100
    to 150 r/r heavy. This will make your r/f tire weigh around 300 Ibs but don't get to nervous.
    As far as stagger you can't get too much. I try to run 3.5 to 4"s all the
    time (this will tell how good you were at copying this deal if you can't run that stager you probably didn't get it
    correct). Run big tires on both fronts if your looking for more forward bite ,and small tires on both fronts if you need
    the car to turn in better on fast tracks.
    Wheel Offsets
    I like to run all 3" offset wheels ,l do mess with that a bit, but it is backwards on this setup than any other car you
    have ran, and everyone that tries to help you with tightening up your car with wheel offsets will be telling you
    backwards.
    Here's how it works on this deal. To make the car tighter on a dry slick track, move the l/r tire UNDER the car
    more, If you want to make the car looser ,and easier to drive on a tacky heavy track move the wheel out on the l/r
    and under the car more on the r/r, ,l know that sounds backwards but that's how it works on this setup ,and is
    where most racers screw this deal up.
    That is a good start and I will post a link to the pics again and go into the mono and coil r/r deal next, just give me some time.

    P.S, to 4M please let us know when your going to dump this thread so we can copy it next time please, There were a lot of racers using it to work with this setup and you made my phone keep ringing from deleting it. I am not, nor have I made ANY money from posting on here (Just trying to help out the low budget racers.
    Thanks
    Scott (Scooter) May

    http://photobucket.com/albums/v655/j21style/Fastboys/ Reply Reply With Quote .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    509

    Default

    A stock car and a modified are two different race cars.A radical set up like the fast boys is needed in a modified,no downforce on the front and the front geometry that is not as good as the camaro. Add a spoiler on the back and if your on the hard tires it's all most like the more you slide the car the tries like the heat it builds.
    With the nosepiece and the camaro clip a stock car will respond to front spring and shock changes more than a modified.Depends on rules but most stock cars have better tires.I do agree 100% with what the fast boys setup is trying to accomplish.Keep the car tight and stable on entry and then keep it tight on the throttle

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    108

    Default

    I just figured this set up would give him alot of diffrent adjustments and it also makes the car tight just like he was asking for. He would more than likely want to use the stacked leaf setup to start with.
    Last edited by Wrencherer; 01-09-2011 at 09:17 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    So will this setup work on my limited?? And would you recommend leaving the leafs under it or going to a coil car?? It has chrysler leafs under it now so i should probably buy new so i know the spring rating is? I have only ran one leaf car and i bought it pre setup so i never had to mess with it. I didnt care for it much but i am willing to try with this car for a little bit. This is why i am on here asking for advice before i just tare it all out and go back to a coil setup.. I love a tight car!! I was thinkin about buying a set of mono springs but u say i should start with the stacked setup first? I appreciate all the help though guys!! I have just started racing about 4 years ago so am still new to this but i have been around racing and working on racecars my whole life!! From bombers to sprint cars but have recently just went on my own so am looking for as much help and advice as possible!! OH, AND ARE CARS HAVE TO WAY 3000LBS. IS THAT GONNA AFFECT THE SETUP YOU GAVE ME?? AND WE CAN ONLY RUN 8 INCH AMERICAN RACERS. AND IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A LEAF CAR TO PULL WHEELIES? JUST CURIOUS...
    Last edited by PUT IT IN SIDEWAYS; 01-10-2011 at 07:57 AM.

  6. #6

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    I was looking at your pictures too and i am not allowed to run sliders or how u have that coil spring on the r/r. Is this setup still gna work?? And if so how do you arche your springs more?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    108

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    If you can not use the sliders or extra coil spring than I would go with a 3 link or 4 link and use coil springs or coilovers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    632

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    Are you allowed to float the RR ?

  9. #9

    Default

    Ok then thanks for the info anyways. Atleast i will know that for a future reference. What do u mean by floating the r/r??

  10. #10

    Default

    Ok i just read a lottle section of our rule book and i can run the slider but i cannot run the fifth spring. And as far as i know i am able to float the r/r.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    632

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    A leaf car doesn't run a fifth spring. If you run the fast Boys set-up you need to float the RR. Southwest Speed #550-300

  12. #12

    Default

    Im confused tehn because if you look at fast boys pictures it shows the fifth spring on the leaf spring setup.... So do i just ignore the fifth spring and run it without it or is it still a better option to just go with the 3 link?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    632

    Default

    Sorry I thought you was talking about a fifth coil set-up. The pic is a mono leaf set-up on the right side, a single leaf on the RR, not stacked. The RR is floated and the coil spring is attached to the axle, not the spring plate. When the car rolls over to the right, the weight of the car pushes down on the coil spring and rotates the axle, since the RR is floated , all the torque from the axle is on the left side, tons of forward bite. I had this on my mod and never could get any side bite, but if you have stacked leafs just float the RR and do what it says about the left spring configuration.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    150

    Default leaf spring setup

    Check your PM.
    dirt2

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I am running a Monte Carlo against Camaro's with same setup. Does anyone have any suggestions to run with stock snout Camaro's? If so what do I need to change.

    Right now car weighs 3150
    LF-1000
    RF-1200
    LR-200
    RR-175
    Left is 52% , Rear 53%, and 52 1/2% across
    Bite 175 lbs with 2" of stagger on dry slick track
    Shocks-LF- is 5, RF- 7, LR - 3, RR- 3 9" stroke on all shocks
    Tire Pressure-LF-10, RF 15, RR-11, LR-9 on 10" tire
    with stock length trailing arms and left rear is down in 2nd hole on rear end.
    Right height LF - 6, RF - 7, LR- 8 and RR 9 - Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

  16. #16

    Default

    Dont quote me on this but i would try tightening the staggar up as tight as u can get it on a dry slick and/or tack y track. When track is wet open the staggar up to about 3 inches. Try a 150 on the r/r as well. N as far as tire pressure i have ran l/f 13 r/f 25 l/r 10 and r/r 18. Not sayin this will work for u as it did for me but it should. AND AS FAR AS YOUR RIDE HEIGHT THAT DONT SOUND RITE TO ME. I ALWAYS RAN EVEN IN THE FRONT AND EVEN IN THE BACK WITH THE FRONT BEING AN INCH HIGHER THAN THE BACK.
    Last edited by PUT IT IN SIDEWAYS; 01-11-2011 at 04:33 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    150

    Default leaf spring setup

    Quote Originally Posted by PUT IT IN SIDEWAYS View Post
    Dont quote me on this but i would try tightening the staggar up as tight as u can get it on a dry slick and/or tack y track. When track is wet open the staggar up to about 3 inches. Try a 150 on the r/r as well. N as far as tire pressure i have ran l/f 13 r/f 25 l/r 10 and r/r 18. Not sayin this will work for u as it did for me but it should. AND AS FAR AS YOUR RIDE HEIGHT THAT DONT SOUND RITE TO ME. I ALWAYS RAN EVEN IN THE FRONT AND EVEN IN THE BACK WITH THE FRONT BEING AN INCH HIGHER THAN THE BACK.
    Sent a reply to your message.
    dirt2

  18. #18

    Default

    One more question... Is that fifth spring on the fast boys pic a pull bar? If it is a push or pull bar i believe i can run it.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    632

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    That fifth spring that you are talking about is holding the car up. The leaf spring is a single leaf spring, it only holds the axle laterally. With leaf springs you don't need a pull bar.

  20. #20

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    I am not sure what i can do then. Somebdy told me that was like a pull bar ur something. My rule book says no fifth coils but i am not sure what that means. I told one guy about it and he syas i can run it cz its not a fifth coil. Said some people call it different things. I am so lost lol

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