Fouling Plugs

[joedoozer]

I am wet fouling plugs, and feel like I am chasing my tail. So here is what I have.

The motor is a SBC, flat top pistons with 2 reliefs. Zero deck with World Product Sportsman II heads, a rough estimate of 9.5 to 1. Carb is a Holley 3310, with no secondary jet plate, running 69's in the primary. MSD ignition with AR133 plugs, running on 93 octane pump gas. Total advance is 34*.

This is a new short block from last year. The top end of the motor is the same as I had last year. The newer motor has a slightly more aggressive cam. During break in it seemed to run fine, I thought I could hear an occasional misfire. After changing the oil and filter, I pulled the plugs.

Not much carbon, the color looked ok. But the plug was wet, the liquid looked like you dunked it in Pepsi. It did not appear to be oil, because it stunk like fuel and the motor does not smoke at all. Although the plugs were a little sticky. Also the entire plug wasn't soaked, just sorted of "misted" on there.

My first thought was plugs were to cold. I stepped up to AR134's but the misfiring appeared worse. So I went back to a new set of AR133's and stepped the jets down from 76's to 74's. Ran it another 20 minutes, did a good shut down and pulled the plugs to check them. Same thing; wet and sticky. I kept repeating this process of stepping down jet sizes until I got to the 69's that are in there now. And again no change. I know the 69's are too lean but I was hoping to get to a point where I would see a change on the plug.

Here are some things I do know to be good. Header temps range from 550 to 750 depending on what cylinders they are. Ignition system gives me a nice sharp snapping blue spark. The power valve is not blown; I turned the idle screws in and it stalled. My idle mixture screws are set at 1 1/4 turns, this gives me the highest vacuum reading at 15 psi. It seems a little on the low side so I think I might be a smidge too advanced with the timing.

Am I missing something that is probably right in front of my nose? Is it possible that the rings are not seated, have absolutely no smoke at any time, and still oil foul a plug? Also running it in the shop at 3,000 rpm I can not get the water temp over 145 degrees. Is it possible the engine is too cold? Working on the car again tonight, and I think it is just a combination of fuel mixture, timing, and engine temp I have to get sorted out. But I will be picking up a leak down tester Saturday morning if I can't get it ironed out tonight. To rule out rings not broke in, and valves not seating. I really don't think it's internal because I have no smoke, there is no popping in the carb, and the header temps are not high. So I am not leaking any combustion out an unseated valve. And the motor does sound healthy, except for the loading up and fouling plugs problem haha.

[fast_crew]

Have you put a load on the engine at all yet? May have to put a load on it to get the rings to seat, depending on the cylinder wall finish, or trueness. Float level isn't too high? May want more timing try 36* Just some ideas

[joedoozer]

Haven't put a load on the car yet. I am in the middle of the city. Cops might not find it funny to see me ripping down main street haha. I believe the float level is correct. I have the car on stands (level) and its just below the hole. But I will check it again. I have changed jets several times, its possible something was "bumped".

I was afraid I would have to load the motor, I just don't like the idea of going to the track 1 week before the season starts with an engine that isn't running right. I would hope to rule everything else out by then.

I am going to put some cardboard in front of the radiator tonight to try and get the temp up. I think that is my biggest problem right now, it's just not warm enough. Recheck the timing and do a plug reading. I prop the throttle open so it runs steady at 3000 rpm. I assume this is fast enough to give me a decent plug reading when I shut it off.

Thanks for the help.

[parrot69777]

Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?

[joedoozer]

Is it running on new fuel....or stuff from last year?

Oh no. it's brand new fuel. As soon as our season ended I drained the tank, carb and lines. And then dumped all the fuel in my truck haha. The specific gravity of the fuel is .760 if anyone weighs their fuel and wondered.

[parrot69777]

I am sure someone will argue this....but I don't think you will get a good reading by just sitting in the garage. I also think with that low of compression....I would be using the 134's. Also outside air temp and not being able to get it over 145 degrees could be a big factor as well.

[joedoozer]

Thanks for the advice everyone. All kind of backing up what I had been thinking the entire time. But when things aren't running right it's good to hear that you aren't too far off.

parrot: I had 134's in it for a 20 minute "stint", and it appeared to be worse. That being said, I am not in the ideal testing environment either. So under load and up to temp you are probably right; 134's being the best heat range. That was my first idea was to jump up a heat range. I will be throwing a thermostat in it tonight, and blocking the radiator off with some cardboard. I have a really good fan and shroud in it, Georgia summers haha.

Living_Truth: When I first fire the car it does lag for a second on the first "punch" of throttle. If I bring the RPM up to around 3500 and accelerate from there to 5500 or so, it does well. I can still hear a miss, but that is probably caused by it not being up to temp. After its cleaned out by doing that, it does accelerate off idle without any problems (except for the occasional miss). If I let it idle for more than 30 seconds, it obviously loads up; and then stumbles a little until it clears out again. Also I am running 93 octane pump gas. And haven't had an issue running it up to this point. It is new fuel, bought just a few days ago.

I just want to make sure I am not missing anything, over looking anything before I take a car to the track that doesn't run right in the garage.

[sj valley dave]

Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...

[joedoozer]

Get some cardboard and get the engine up to 200* and then check your readings...

Yup, and I am going to yank out the 69's I have in the primary and put 72's in. I know I shouldn't change more than 1 thing at a time, but I think the 69's are way to lean.

[stock car driver]

You cant jet a motor in a garage. Quit messing with it and get it on a chassis dyno and tune it.

5500 with no load is just asking to ruin parts. I use a winch to load my car and to pull my car in the shop. I save my motors wear and tear for at the track where I can win something. I think I have started it at home between races maybe 5 times in the last 2 years.

[joedoozer]

Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

Thank you everyone else for your input.

[crc stock]

Locking your distributor if not already done will let you adjust your butterflies so it is not running of your main circuit. Just guessing you dont have it locked since u said 34 total advance. good luck

[ToddSmith16]

Fouling plugs from an idle is a given! Need to put motor under load at a play day or hotlaps to get the real reading on the plugs!!!!

[joedoozer]

Changed jets to 72's, set timing to 36 full advance. Threw a thermostat in it, cardboard in front of the radiator. Got it up to temp. Plugs look better, so its ready to go.

[stock car driver]

Stockcar please save your breath, I really don't care what you do or how much you have won. Whether you are right, wrong, or speaking chinese you come off like an ass. Not sure if you do it on purpose or what, but save your info for someone else please.

I wasn't trying to dyno the car on jackstands in the garage. I am not screaming the motor with no load for 5 mintues. I am trying to get it in the ballpark so it's at least drivable when I show up at the track. I winch my car on the trailer and push it in the shop too. I don't have a crew, it's just me. I go to the track by myself, and do it all by myself. So occasionally I need to bounce ideas of someone other than my wife.

Thank you everyone else for your input.

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

[parrot69777]

Isn't 4m great?

[powerslide]

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

How do you finish any races? If you have the same attitude at the track that you have here on 4m i'm suprised you dont get taken out everynite. Or do you just give the tough guy act on the net?

[merc123]

I got a brand new motor last season. We ran it on the dyno about 6 or 7 times. Bolted it into the car and ran 2 full races. 3rd race it started to misfire. It would rev to 5500 with a load and stop. It wouldn't misfire in the garage with no load. Turned out to be bad plugs...AR134's.

Truth is you won't know if it is driveable until you drive it. Wait until the play day and take it out on the track.

[stock car driver]

I go racing by myself also... you cant get in the ball park free reving your motor in the shop.

But to each his own.

If I sound like an ass its because your a dumb ass most likely and dont like anyone to tell you the plain simple obvious truth... you want morons to reply that are as dumb as you.

What part of that is a tough guy act? I hit the nail on the head about this guy, period.

He wanted to chat on here like it was yahoo messenger with other idiots. He didnt want any actual help whatsoever.

[4bangerhotrod]

we always had trouble when running autolites in our LM engines if the car set in staging idleing or had a lot of caution laps the plugs would get wet, even after cleaning it out before going green it always took a few laps to clean them up, then we would have to change plugs every 3-4 races. But now we switched to ngk and we havnt had a prob since, so now we switch plugs about every 10-15 races just to be on the safe side even though the engine dont seem to need it. and running the car in the garage we always do every week to make sure theres no obvious problems before heading out. when we get a new engine or one freshened the builder makes a couple dyno pulls when we pick them up then we adjust through the year by free revving in the shop never had a prob, then we back it up by a few runs down the ol black top just for the fun of it. this is with a top ranked national driver cars and a top ranked regional driver car. so stock car driver you might be good at what you do but your way is not the only way to do everything, cause there are people that do it different and it also works and we got walls of $10k an a few $50k checks to prove it.