Crate ?

[Dirtwizard]

How much HP does a good legal one make, blueprinted, $ carb , $ headers ?

Now, how about a REALLY GOOD ONE , 383 or larger yes Ive heard of some over 400 inches

[rubbinsracin]

Our track pulls and dynos and posts results of "random" motors they pull and test and they had a 604 with 450ish hp and a 602 with right at 405. we have a lot of guys who went to 602 last year because our local dealer that sells them got a "good batch" in and you get to weigh 2150 where the 604 has to weight 2400 and GN has to weigh 2475.

a guy i worked with bought a 604 at the end of its racing life and tore it down an turned it into a 383 and changed the cam, put some domes in it, light weight this and that, did some porting. he got it up to somewhere around 675 on the dyno. put it in his old caprice cop car and went ahead and put twist off GM bolts on it for s**ts and giggles too.

[Egoracing]

Anything over 650 hp in a stock GM block will bust the block, that and the PM rods in the crate won't hold much over 550. Hope he enjoys it!

[grt74]

if your wanting to know how much a legal (one that will pass tech if tore down and checked) 604 crate motor will make 500 to 525 hp the asa guys have been doing this for years before us dirt guys of course this depends on your track and rules some rules say the seals cant be touched at all and some let you have the reman seals from the gm rebuilder but they will tech to the rule tolerances,this is the reason we got out of crate racing they killed it by letting them rebuild them(by a certified builder)and of coarse there going to try to get all they can get. so if you buy a crate motor and put it in your 100 hp short until you get it rebuilt (if the track lets you)so theres an idea if your wanting to go crate racing. i would just go to super if it were my decision its really not much more if you put a pencil to it.they have a lot of hard tire races these days to keep the cost of tires down

[Egoracing]

if your wanting to know how much a legal (one that will pass tech if tore down and checked) 604 crate motor will make 500 to 525 hp the asa guys have been doing this for years before us dirt guys of course this depends on your track and rules some rules say the seals cant be touched at all and some let you have the reman seals from the gm rebuilder but they will tech to the rule tolerances,this is the reason we got out of crate racing they killed it by letting them rebuild them(by a certified builder)and of coarse there going to try to get all they can get. so if you buy a crate motor and put it in your 100 hp short until you get it rebuilt (if the track lets you)so theres an idea if your wanting to go crate racing. i would just go to super if it were my decision its really not much more if you put a pencil to it.they have a lot of hard tire races these days to keep the cost of tires down

ASA is allowed to repalce springs, harmonic ballancers, valves and other internal parts on the asphalt crate motors and thoes 500+hp crates were being busted for cut heads and blocks. It was all over the boards and there were MANY builders that were banned from ASA because of it several years ago.

[grt74]

just saying that if you dont spend more money after you buy a brand new engine youll be beat by the motor that was rebuilt.50 to 75 hp or more is noticable in crate racing

[Egoracing]

No, East Bay in the Nesmith races was recently won with a stock un rebuilt crate. We won SEVERAL limited late model (362 aluminum head limited) races running a stock out of the box crate and went from 10th to first in one lap and we were giving up 100-150hp. There have been several open races won by non rebuilt crates. Track and Setup still rules even in crate racing.

[grt74]

oh i agree that in most cases a better setup car will win but there are people doing this and again they will pass tech if you go by the tolerances in the rule book,of course ill take the better handling car but if i can have a good handling car and more power thats even better thats jmo for what its worth

[JTSjet]

i completely agree with Ego. hp takes a back seat to momentum and cornering as far as i'm concerned.

while 50 hp may be a a considerable amount on a 400hp engine, i do not believe that there is 50 hp found by blueprinting alone. whoever is telling you there is, is probably trying to sell you something. carb, headers, drivetrain, etc. - yes maybe, but those are things a guy with a virgin crate can do. i have 386hp at the rear wheels and can honestly say i've never been beat by horsepower against any crate or even against supposed 700hp 358 engines on a carefully selected race track/event.

[F22 RAPTOR]

ASA is allowed to repalce springs, harmonic ballancers, valves and other internal parts on the asphalt crate motors and thoes 500+hp crates were being busted for cut heads and blocks. It was all over the boards and there were MANY builders that were banned from ASA because of it several years ago.

Thank you, I knew those numbers weren't from legal engines. Crate haters get on here and pump out sewage to try and scare people off. I by no means love crates, but they serve a purpose thats helping keep our sport growing and healthy. I'd much rather have it were you can build your own with set tolerances that are enforced. Limited could've been what crate is today if promoters hadn't given so much over the years and let the costs get out've hand. Thats my 2 cents.

[Egoracing]

Thank you, I knew those numbers weren't from legal engines. Crate haters get on here and pump out sewage to try and scare people off. I by no means love crates, but they serve a purpose thats helping keep our sport growing and healthy. I'd much rather have it were you can build your own with set tolerances that are enforced. Limited could've been what crate is today if promoters hadn't given so much over the years and let the costs get out've hand. Thats my 2 cents.

I agree 150%. I believe though that you may see crates go the same way. I have heard of some tracks that are allowing them to replace valve springs for local events and to change harmonic ballancers. Hopefully this gets under check SOON or we will have $20,000 crates just like the ASA.

[Dirtwizard]

So what are the numbers stock,rebuilt, 383 crate

[Egoracing]

Good stock or rebuilt about 385 at the rear wheels. No such thing as a 383 "Crate" running anything but a track that does not do ANY tech and if then it is not a crate any more.

[F22 RAPTOR]

Good stock or rebuilt about 385 at the rear wheels. No such thing as a 383 "Crate" running anything but a track that does not do ANY tech and if then it is not a crate any more.

Bingo on that 383.

[Dirtwizard]

Good stock or rebuilt about 385 at the rear wheels. No such thing as a 383 "Crate" running anything but a track that does not do ANY tech and if then it is not a crate any more.

No such thing ? First of all there are lots of 383 crate engines, I didnt say legal or even from GM. What I was getting at is theres a few around claming ''604''

[F22 RAPTOR]

I agree 150%. I believe though that you may see crates go the same way. I have heard of some tracks that are allowing them to replace valve springs for local events and to change harmonic ballancers. Hopefully this gets under check SOON or we will have $20,000 crates just like the ASA.

You hit the nail on the head when you said, "some tracks". Some tracks are whats wrong the health and state of dirt racing as it is now, they allow this and they allow that and pretty soon the class is no longer anywhere near what it was. Follow and enforce the rules, simple. As to what kinda power an illegal or outlaw crate engine makes, I could care less, they won't be running at any of the reputable events, at least not long. I know FASTRAK and NeSmith will toss them out on there ears.

[sj valley dave]

Totally agree, F22...A sealed crate engine is what it is, a 602 or a 604 sealed engine ...A 383 crate is just a built 383 using crate look a like parts, why not build a 406, or a 432??? Jeez, some people....