Pipe glowing red, need help

[CushionArtist]

Recently moved our engine from one car to another because of a track change. We ran the current motor for one race in the old car and everything was fine. Changed over to our new car and now the pipe starts glowing red 4 laps into the race and then begins to overheat. It is a Ford 2.5L engine.

Things we've checked:

Timing - Set at 32, although we did find we had been using the wrong mark on our crank pulley and had it set at 38 degrees. Pipe still glowing red after change.

Plugs were changed, wires are brand new and have been ohmed ( all within variance ).

Jetting - Have gone from 78 - 86 and still have same problem.

Changed ignition module on TFI distributor. Coil is brand new.

Header is the same as other car, is brand new.

Checked valve clearance.

Checked cam timing. It is set at 2 degrees retard and still lines up with marks as set by engine builder.

Carb to spacer and spacer to intake gaskets were changed.

With engine running at 3000 RPM's in shop, all four pipes on header begin to glow red within 5 minutes of starting. I'm out of ideas. Any help?

[CushionArtist]

Forgot to mention the only other change was to switch from an electric fuel pump to a stock mustang mechanical pump. We cannot use an electric pump now due to the track change.

[steveshawjr]

make sure all vacume ports on carb and intake have been blocked .

try backing off your timming some more see if it helps

octane level to low for eninge

head gasket blown
prt#
thats some of the things i can think of of the top of my head


i think its worth the 20 dollers for the head gasket pull the head and make sure your not bunning up a piston or 2

if your head gaskets gone have it cut back true as it could be warped

i run the e3 plugs and have had no problem with them prt# E360

i also run 94oct with a oct booster

i would also look at your cam specs . if your set retarded and have a cut head it would be even more retarded not leting the fule in it needs even with going to bigger jets look at going advanced or stright up

[car62]

id run it to 36 on ignition timing,and straight up or advanced on cam timing.

[84Dave]

Are all (4) pipes on the header glowing red? If so, a fuel mixture problem? Fuel pull-over within the carb(booster, squirters, transfer slot?) Or........ if you haven't done so, use a piston stop in the head plug hole on #1 & make certain the front pulley is indexed properly for TDC, so ignition timing will be proper. We recently checked the Esslinger pulley on front of an early 2.0L Pinto engine & it was in error by 5-degrees! With the engine warm, a static compression check of all (4) cylinders? -Dave-

[CushionArtist]

steve - thanks, I'll try looking at the carb and intake for possible air leaks. I'll also try putting the cam back at zero.
car62 - I agree, but my engine builder wants me at 32 degrees
84Dave - Yes, all four pipes are red. 2, 3, and 4 are glowing a little more than 1, but not by much. How can I check pull-over? I'm not familiar with this problem. Is this something that could just show up one week? The reason I ask is because we ran this engine combination with this carb last year and one race this year with no problem. It didn't appear until we moved this engine into another car. I'll check the pulley for proper indexing, but I think that may have been checked already.

Thanks for all the help thus far.

[Egoracing]

More often than not red pipes are a timing issue or a rich condition and going up on the jet size is going to make it worse.

[longhornracer]

mine did this once and one of my air mixture screws were ran all the way in..

[spddmn]

Did the car backfire during the intial start? Could be a ruptured powervalve, maybe the float is set to high. Sounds like a rich problem.

[84Dave]

Cushion....... if you're using the 350 or 500 Holley, and the carb has been around awhile, change the power-valve. Idle the engine for about 10 minutes in the shop, with the hood on. Clip the engine & immediately check the fuel level in the float-bowl. We've found the best fuel-level to be about 1/16" BELOW the bottom threads of the sight-plug. Pull-over? Rev the engine, steady-state, to 3500-4000 rpm. Look down the carb throat. If you see fuel dribbling/streaming out of the accelerator pump nozzles, you have pull-over. Oh..... before you try another thing, replace the o-ring on the needle-seat with a new one. If that o-ring is old/deformed/slightly hardened, the fuel pressure can push fuel by the o-ring & tend to flood the float bowl. -Dave-

[BVS40FL]

If fuel mixture is OK. Remember this. As you RETARD the timing, the glowing exhaust will get worse. When the timing is RETARDED it will make the exhaust glow.
I agree with 84 Dave on double checking the pulley marks by using a piston stop.
After that is corrected set the timing to AT LEAST 36, if not 38.

[CushionArtist]

Ok

Checked the pulley. It was off ( freaking Esslinger ). Got that problem fixed, set the cam timing to heads up and got my timing set. Glowing pipes stopped.

Now when I bring the RPM's up to about 3500, the engine starts to develop a miss, cough, or whatever you call it. It is not running correctly. We're using a Holley 500cfm carb. Since it was the only thing that is not new or hasn't been changed we switched over to our old 350cfm carb. Engine sounds great with this so we're thinking it's the carb. This carb was refreshed last July and only run about 12 times since then. Could this be the problem? I keep seeing "pullover" mentioned. What is that and how do I test for it?

Thanks for the help.

[CushionArtist]

Sorry Dave. Didn't see you explained the pullover thing. I'll check that after I get the oring replaced. Where do you buy the orings?

Also, our carb has a power valve block off in it.

[84Dave]

McFadden-Dale, or most any other Industrial Supply house, will have drawers full of o-rings. Put a power-valve in the carb and reduce the main fuel jet size at least 4-6 numbers. -Dave-

[CushionArtist]

Purpose of power valve? Only reason I ask is because, well first I don't know what it does, and secondly our carb builder removed it and put the block off in there. I hope I'm not offending you, I just want to understand why.

Also, where can I buy the anti pullover part?

[84Dave]

The purpose of the power-valve is to make additional fuel available through the carb from mid to high rpm & WOT demands. Remove the power valve & that additional fuel requirement must be made available by increasing the size of the main fuel jets. However, that also means the carb may run too rich @ light-to-medium throttle settings. Which means there can be detrimental results with regard to the fuel-curve/BSFC across the engine operating rpm band. Whether partial or full-throttle. Additionally, for those using the 500 Holley 2-bbl, the power-valve-channel-restrictions (PVCR) are very near .060" diameter. Fine for a high-power V-8, but WAY too large for the typical 4-cylinder using a power-valve. Those channels should be jetted back into the range of about .040" diameter for the typical 4-cylinder. I don't remember the diameter of those channels in a 'stock' Holley 350. -Dave-

[CushionArtist]

Dave,

Thanks for all the help. I'll have to bring this up with my carb builder.

Good news is, we won our feature last night. Engine only missed one time when I hit about 8500 RPM. Once the track slicked over, we weren't turning it nearly that high.

Bad news is, the pipe still glowed a little in the feature. I think it's close enough now, that it is a minor jetting or slight cam adjustment. Either that, or it's pullover.

Thanks for all the help from everyone. Next question is where can I buy the anti pullover part?

[SLYDIRT]

are all (4) pipes on the header glowing red? If so, a fuel mixture problem? Fuel pull-over within the carb(booster, squirters, transfer slot?) or........ If you haven't done so, use a piston stop in the head plug hole on #1 & make certain the front pulley is indexed properly for tdc, so ignition timing will be proper. We recently checked the esslinger pulley on front of an early 2.0l pinto engine & it was in error by 5-degrees! With the engine warm, a static compression check of all (4) cylinders? -dave-

i have the same prob with the glowing header how exactly would i check for the pulley being off 5 deg i am new at this kinda stuff thanks for all info

[84Dave]

Go to a parts store & buy, or borrow one from your engine buddy, a 'piston stop'. It's a device that threads into the sparkplug hole in the head. In the center of the piston stop is an adjustable 'plunger'. Adjust the depth of the plunger until it contacts the piston just before TDC. Use the 'stop in the #1 cylinder plug hole. Before you begin, tighten the cam belt good & tight. Rotate the engine CW until the piston is about 1" down the bore from TDC, with both valves closed. Install the 'stop. Continue to rotate the engine CW until the piston hits the 'stop. At that point, scribe a mark on the front pulley in line with the pointer. Then rotate the engine CCW until the piston again hits the 'stop. Scribe another mark on the pulley. If the original mark on the Esslinger pulley is in the correct position, it'll be exactly centered between the (2) scribe marks you made on the pulley. If it's not, you have (2) options. Change the position of the ignition timing pointer screwed to the block, or file a new mark on the Esslinger pulley for TDC. If in doubt, get some help from your engine buddies! -Dave-