Anyone running the newer camero's? like the 93 or newer ones?

[Racer #42]

Im needing some tech support and have a few questions. Thanks

[blacksmythx]

What do you need?

[Racer #42]

Man we got this car in on a trade and it has nice stuff. Just need a starting point on offsetts and weights and percentages and stuff. I run on a 1/4 mile D shape oval. Its dryslick 90% of the time. We gotta wiegh 3400 pounds. Thanks again. No one around here that i kno of is runnin these cars.

[blacksmythx]

1200 RF, 1100 LF, 200 RR, 250 LR. springs.
60# bite. Get the weight up high and move to the right as it gets slicker to help the car turn.
I know a "shock guy" and he picks 'em, nothing special though except the right front is one of those nearly no compression and all the rebound you can get deals.

Drive it straight and don't hit anything, it's a 4 banger with a big motor among a bunch of tanks.
If it still won't turn soften the left front.

Keep a spare set of everything for the front end. Don't reinforce the spindles, it'll knock the shock tower into the carburetor if you bang the RF.

How have you got the springs setup on the front?
Stock wheel pattern or adapters?
Floater rearend?
What engine?

[Racer #42]

Im not sure about the rates yet. Gonna look at it either tonight or tommorrow. It has the adapted 5 on 5 spacers on the front. (Real wide) lol. Yes sir it has a floater under it with a 358ci motor.

[blacksmythx]

Yep, if it's a 60" rear you need 2" spacers both sides. Run 4" offset wheels and make sure right side tires are exactly lined up.

[Egoracing]

Just a question, Why soften the LF to make it turn? On a late model to turn you soften the RF. The LF then gains more weight when you get off of the gas or hit the brakes pulling the car to the left while the softer RF gets the weight to roll over and load the RF tire more and dig it into the track.

[blacksmythx]

The only answer I have is the setup guides from chassis builders tell it that way and it has worked in the past. Also oral history from the old timers says "STIFF SPRING GETS THE WEIGHT" so it would seem as soon as you let off it would turn because the RF gets the weight. But we might be learning something here, I would like other late model guys to weigh in to clear this up. Maybe it has something to do with that 4 link slamming the LR in the ground when you go back to the gas? Lol!

[Dirtrunner35]

If you have too stiff of front springs in your car it will push!! You take out RF spring to help it push less, by doing this the left front spring gets more weight in a left hand turn making the left tire grip better. Helping the car to turn.

[Egoracing]

The only answer I have is the setup guides from chassis builders tell it that way and it has worked in the past. Also oral history from the old timers says "STIFF SPRING GETS THE WEIGHT" so it would seem as soon as you let off it would turn because the RF gets the weight. But we might be learning something here, I would like other late model guys to weigh in to clear this up. Maybe it has something to do with that 4 link slamming the LR in the ground when you go back to the gas? Lol!

Kinda what I thought, If you go by the stiffer spring gets the weight, which is true, then the LF stiffer would gain more weight than the RF and pull it into the turn. If teh RF is stiffer and it gains more weight it will pull the car to the right. The idea of stiffer RF has been dropped in late models MANY years ago and now it is finally go into some modifieds to run a stiffer LF and softer RF. We even did it on a dirt late model on asphalt and it worked there also.

[Dirtrunner35]

The stiffer spring will not pull the car in a turn. It puts more weight on it.

[Egoracing]

The stiffer spring will not pull the car in a turn. It puts more weight on it.

IF the stiffer spring is on the LF when you get off of the gas or on the brakes the weight will hit the LF more than the RF, the increased load will create added drag and will cause the car to turn towards the more loaded tire. Push a shopping cart with 4 24 packs of soda placed in the basket and see what happens. Now place all 4 on the LF corner of the cart. Now that tire is carrying more weight, push the cart again and see what happens.

[let-r-eat]

If your overloading the front tires and pushing you can't be in the gas!!!! Get in the GAS!!

[blacksmythx]

If your overloading the front tires and pushing you can't be in the gas!!!! Get in the GAS!!

That's what I'm talkin' about! Drive that push out of it!

[Egoracing]

If your overloading the front tires and pushing you can't be in the gas!!!! Get in the GAS!!

No, You can EAISLY have a push on entry on the gas and if you have a push while not on the gas or brake getting on the gas is going to put you into the wall.

[Dirtrunner35]

IF the stiffer spring is on the LF when you get off of the gas or on the brakes the weight will hit the LF more than the RF, the increased load will create added drag and will cause the car to turn towards the more loaded tire. Push a shopping cart with 4 24 packs of soda placed in the basket and see what happens. Now place all 4 on the LF corner of the cart. Now that tire is carrying more weight, push the cart again and see what happens.

So you're saying if the stiffer spring is on the right front, the car will pull to the right off the gas ? It's the caster that makes a car pull right or left. A stiffer lf spring will load the tire more in a left turn but your already turning the car.

I guess I would need to make my caster/camber equal, one of the springs stiffer and on a flat surface and slow down or hit the brake and see what happens.

[Egoracing]

So you're saying if the stiffer spring is on the right front, the car will pull to the right off the gas ? It's the caster that makes a car pull right or left. A stiffer lf spring will load the tire more in a left turn but your already turning the car.

I guess I would need to make my caster/camber equal, one of the springs stiffer and on a flat surface and slow down or hit the brake and see what happens.

The more loaded tire creates more drag PERIOD! No caster or camber change needed. 99% of the setups on late models are stiffer LF for this reason.

[Dirtrunner35]

Some great reading By Mark Ortiz.


Stiffening the right front spring, or adding preload to it, does load that tire more, and does mike it produce more corning force, in a left turn.

However, this comes at the expense of left front tire loading. The spring change can't change the total load on the front wheel pair, only the distribution of that total between the right front and left front. The spring change also can't change the total load on the rear wheel pair, the right wheel pair, or the left wheel pair, only the diagonally opposite wheel pair.

So rear wheel loads when cornering are also effected by the front springs. The total rear wheel load doesn't change, but it's right / left distribution changes, oppositely to the front wheels.

This means that with a stiffer RF spring, the front tires are loaded more unequally when cornering, and the rears are loaded more equally, than with a softer RF spring.

[Egoracing]

The only way to get more load to the front or rear is to put more weight on them. If you goto a lighter RF the chassis will roll onto the RF and place additional weight onto the tire placing more weight there than when was on the front statically. A tire will only hold X amount of force no matter HOW much you try to load it, if you are using all of X to try to turn and you over load it it is going to slip. Going to a lighter spring allow it to work easier. Adding a stiffer RF will also keep more load on the LR which can easily cause a push while on the throttle. Goto integra's web site and look at the dirt late model adjustments. To get the car to turn more positively you need to decrease the RF spring rate.

[bushracing67]

or going lighter on the rf creates a bind and has the same effect as going stiffer....