RR Ride Height...and Bite

[joedoozer]

With all my ride heights set correct the car has 150 pounds of bite. I can't back the coil over nut off any more on the LR, because it won't be touching the spring when the axle is hanging. So I put a few turns into the RR spring until my bite was at 100 pounds. Rechecked ride heights. Fronts are correct and RR is 3/4" higher than the what Warrior recommends. All my wheel weights look good and percentages are where I want them.

Is this anything to worry about? Am I cutting corners? Should I try moving mass in the car to get what I need? Generally speaking what have I changed "geometry wise" by raising my RR ride height?

[01racing]

i dont think i would just put turns in the rr there is alot of thing going beside just taking out lr what kind of car and lr spring is it a stack?

[hall99]

I don't think you have to have the adjuster always in the LR spring I seldom start with it that way - others may disagree - we are usually a 1/4 to 1/2" from the LR spring and sometimes get into it if you rock the car up some. I would try taking rounds of out LR and RF and putting a rounds in RR and LF. You should get pretty close.

[joedoozer]

Up until this past week the car has troubles staying up on the bars (I know that is a another thread in itself). When I was scaling the car I jacked up the LR by the frame to change the bite and to re-center the scale under the tire. I noticed that the tire was still on the scale and the nut wasn't touching the spring. I thought to myself if the nut comes off the spring then the chassis can only go that high. Chassi rolls, birdcage indexes, spring pushes chassis up. It's only going to push it so high, it can't if its not touching the nut.

I had a 250 on the LR behind and a 200 on the RR. And with the LR hanging on the chain it was a good 2 inches from the nut. So I swapped the 2 springs with each other. When I made the final adjustment to the RR and got the Bite I wanted, I ran out of time and needed to stop working for the night. Which just gets me thinking constantly about it. I never like to get away from the baseline ride heights. And didn't like that it was a little high. I will have more time this week to put it back on the scales and mess with it.

I just wanted to bounce this off someone, to see what other's ideas were.

[rubbinsracin]

i think it might be a good idea to let us know where you have the car now. like put your complete setup on here and maybe we can find some things to help you. our LR has at least 1/2" clearance on the nut at full drop. we are an underrail car and even we when have the car really really rocked over you can see in the pictures that the local guy at our track takes they are still in contact with the shock adjuster nut. we have been told if you think you are coming off to just get a take-up spring like we use on our LF.

[hpmaster]

Sounds like you need to look at a stack and slider set up. We been working with the stack and slider on the LR and have good results after we figured how to adjust it and keep the adjusters from coming loose. I wouldn't screw with the other corners myself, don't sound like they are broke.

[joedoozer]

Thanks, for all the info. I don't really need help with the set up. I just wanted to see if I was understanding the physics correctly.

For example: To help understand what is going on.

If I had a 250 pound spring on the LR that was compressed 2 inches when the car was sitting. It would have lets say 500 pounds of pressure (just to keep the numbers simple). When the chassis rolls it would only extend the spring those 2 inches. After that it would come off the nut so the spring would not be holding the car up.

If I put a 200 pound spring on the LR it would need to compressed more to reach that 500 pounds of pressure to support the car when its sitting still. Lets say it squishes 3 1/2 inches. Now the chassis can hike more because the spring is compressed more when the car is at rest.

Right? Wrong? Or missing the boat entirely?

[F22 RAPTOR]

...I noticed that the tire was still on the scale and the nut wasn't touching the spring. I thought to myself if the nut comes off the spring then the chassis can only go that high. Chassis roll, birdcage indexes, spring pushes chassis up. It's only going to push it so high, it can't if its not touching the nut...

The chassis can continue to rise without touching the spring, albeit with less traction. There are plenty of videos on youtube that demonstrate this. Now the spring does play a roll in lifting the LR up, to a point, but axle thrust and rod angle are the primary drivers of the car getting up. I would wager having your car at the correct ride heights is more important than having the coil over nut touching the springs at all times. These cars anymore rely very heavily on the correct geometry for everything to work, it must be in harmony and changing the RR by 3/4 inch would alter your thrust angle as well as it would make bar adjustments on the RR change the lead in the car. If your really bothered by the spring nut pressing on the nut at full hike up you might consider either a take up spring or a two-step spring setup. The two-step I think would ensure you get maximum forward traction thru all range of hike up.

[joedoozer]

My bar locations and J-bar are all in locations that promote hike. I thought maybe the spring issue might have been a missing piece of the puzzle. The nut was a few inches away from the spring. I thought that seemed extreme. I didn't like the ride height being off as soon as I did it. I just haven't had the time to mess with it since.

I will get it on the scales again this week and fiddle with it. I will post what I do, and what I figure out. Maybe this thread will help someone else in the future.

[3wheelinphotos]

Have you tried calling the people that built the car to see what they can suggest?? Everyone on here is going to have a different suggestion an that will get you going 101 different directions. The Warrior house car runs pretty well so i'd say they will be able to help you out with you question.

www.goddardwarrior.net 865-573-2411

[joedoozer]

I realize that you don't want the car to hike to the point that its on the chain, because that will lift the tire off the ground. So it might be wrong to expect the nut to touch the spring when its hanging on the chain, because it should never get to that point.

I will reset my ride heights to what Warrior says. Jack the LR up until its about 1 or 2 inches from hitting the chain. And then adjust the nut until it just touches the spring. And see what that gets me.

[joedoozer]

Have you tried calling the people that built the car to see what they can suggest?? Everyone on here is going to have a different suggestion an that will get you going 101 different directions. The Warrior house car runs pretty well so i'd say they will be able to help you out with you question.

www.goddardwarrior.net 865-573-2411

Yeah I talk to them all the time. Its not so much a Warrior question I am having. Its more of a general "how the chassis moves" question. The answers to my question aren't Warrior specific. I am just trying to understand what happens when you lift this and move that.

[jedclampit]

Put a softer spring there with the same bite if you want it touching, unless you understand (and want!) all that is goinging on when you raise the rr ride height,I would only use the correct rr ride height.

You should note that as you:

-raise the lr lower bar at frame
-lower upper bar at frame
- raise upper bar at the birdcage

>these adjustments will all increase the gap there at full droop

>and decrease the gap with the opposite adjustments.

So this gap will change if/when you move your lr bars after scaling the car.

I never allow a gap there with car in race settings, can kill your foreward drive when/where the track is dry.

[joedoozer]

Put a softer spring there with the same bite if you want it touching, unless you understand (and want!) all that is goinging on when you raise the rr ride height,I would only use the correct rr ride height.

You should note that as you:

-raise the lr lower bar at frame
-lower upper bar at frame
- raise upper bar at the birdcage

>these adjustments will all increase the gap there at full droop

>and decrease the gap with the opposite adjustments.

So this gap will change if/when you move your lr bars after scaling the car.

I did all of that . Raised LRU on the frame, lowered LRB on the frame, and lowered LRU on the cage. I softened the LR spring from a 250 to a 200 when I noticed the spring wasn't touching. It is touching now with the 200. I just need to get that RR ride height back to normal.

This all confirms what I see in my head. I am not totally out in left field.

[jedclampit]

Where is your battery mounted? Left side %?

[joedoozer]

Where is your battery mounted? Left side %?

Right side on the dry sump tank mount. All my lead is on the RR upper frame just behind the axle. I have a monster fuel cell in it right now that I can't move any further to the right.

The nut is touching with the axle hanging on the chain. I can probably back it off a couple of turns and it will still be touching during hike. Then I can get the RR ride height back to what it should be and I will have about 100 pounds of bite.

[jedclampit]

Unsure of your left side percentage, but you will fix your problem by moving weight to the left.
Also do you scale with driver or ballast in seat?

[racin29]

your comment about not wanting to be on the chain limiter is wrong tho, you do want to run against it your lr is not reaching its full potential if you do not run against it, im not saying shorten the chain you need the car to lift to where the chain is now, and it should be on the axle not the birdcage just in case

[joedoozer]

I have 53.8% left side with me in the car.

When I scale the car I get in it and write all the numbers down. Then I get out and start putting weight in the car. I move it around until the numbers match to when I was in it.

After what others have said I realize I don't need the nut touching the spring when its hanging on the chain. I can back the nut off a few turns. That should lower the bite enough and I can put the RR ride height back to normal.

I started the thread to get opinions on my train of thought. I wanted to make sure I was understanding what was going on. Somehow it got sidetracked.

If I hold a rock in my hand and drop it, will it hit the ground. The size of the rock, color, shape, what hand.....none of that matters. It was a what happens if....type thread.

[F22 RAPTOR]

I have 53.8% left side with me in the car.

When I scale the car I get in it and write all the numbers down. Then I get out and start putting weight in the car. I move it around until the numbers match to when I was in it.

After what others have said I realize I don't need the nut touching the spring when its hanging on the chain. I can back the nut off a few turns. That should lower the bite enough and I can put the RR ride height back to normal.

I started the thread to get opinions on my train of thought. I wanted to make sure I was understanding what was going on. Somehow it got sidetracked.

If I hold a rock in my hand and drop it, will it hit the ground. The size of the rock, color, shape, what hand.....none of that matters. It was a what happens if....type thread.

What happens is.... The world comes to an end and you get swallowed by a black hole. LOL
Was it pea gravel or lime stone....