RR Ride Height...and Bite

[joedoozer]

What happens is.... The world comes to an end and you get swallowed by a black hole. LOL
Was it pea gravel or lime stone....

Haha. The rock bounced....so that changes everything.

[3wheelinphotos]

Hey if you talk to them often then you would know that Warrior wants you to be on the chain when the LR drops not one or two inches shy of it full extenstion. On the 2007 an up cars your LR drop needs to be no more than 15 1/4 inches between top rail and axle tube. I know this thread is not about LR drop but your showing other issues you may have with your car.

What year car is it?

[jedclampit]

Actually raising the lr upper CAN loosen your car............
If you have four mounts at the frame for the lr upper,and your in the second hole up, and the cars is able to hike up to a tight chain, raising that bar to hole 3 or 4 up will not add any more total dynamic wedge, ( it will develop a little faster) , but it will add more loose roll steer, which may loosen the car when hiked to the same max chain/same droop extension,compared to hole # 2.

[4bangerhotrod]

Also, I scale w/o driver and shoot for ~53% left. With driver ends up ~57% when we checked it (if I remember correctly.)

living truth if you have 57% left you are way off.


once the car is on the bars the spring does nothing so it dont matter if the adjuster nut is close to the spring or not. the car shouldnt be on the spring but just for a short moment as it is climbing the bars and after the car is on the bars it is pretty ridgid so the direct pressure applied through a solid link will apply way more pressure than a spring ever could. so use what springs you want, set bite and ride heights an dont worry about adjuster nuts.

[4bangerhotrod]

Actually raising the lr upper CAN loosen your car............
If you have four mounts at the frame for the lr upper,and your in the second hole up, and the cars is able to hike up to a tight chain, raising that bar to hole 3 or 4 up will not add any more total dynamic wedge, ( it will develop a little faster) , but it will add more loose roll steer, which may loosen the car when hiked to the same max chain/same droop extension,compared to hole # 2.

if the car is tight on the chain and you raise your bar and gain angle in the bar, that bar is going to have more thrust angle witch will apply more pressure to that tire. the bar angle is whats producing the forward bite in the car, the more angle the more direct the pressure is pushing down so the more pressure that tire see's. then after about 45* the bars dont gain enough pressure to over ride the added roll steer then you will start loosening up the car.

[F22 RAPTOR]

It appears the rock bounced and hit someone in the eye, then ricocheted into traffic causing a massive pileup on the interstate... Jeez Louise!!!

[dualdj1]

It appears the rock bounced and hit someone in the eye, then ricocheted into traffic causing a massive pileup on the interstate... Jeez Louise!!!

lol, indeed.

Joe think you're on the right track as far as your original question.

[fastford]

if the car is tight on the chain and you raise your bar and gain angle in the bar, that bar is going to have more thrust angle witch will apply more pressure to that tire. the bar angle is whats producing the forward bite in the car, the more angle the more direct the pressure is pushing down so the more pressure that tire see's. then after about 45* the bars dont gain enough pressure to over ride the added roll steer then you will start loosening up the car.

if the car is tight on the chain, then your not going to gain any more thrust to that tire by raising top bar, however you will increase rear steer which will loosen car,

[Matt49]

if the car is tight on the chain, then your not going to gain any more thrust to that tire by raising top bar, however you will increase rear steer which will loosen car,

Sorry, I agree with 4bangerhotrod on this one. The chain isn't holding the car up the bar is, so more angle IS producing more thrust. It's not like it hits the chain and somehow magically locks in place, the bar is still providing the force to keep it up and that force vector is dependent upon the angle that the bar is at. To a point...after about 45 degrees it looses its effectiveness. I've even seen birdcages cam over doing this and that makes a racecar very evil to drive.
Set your chain length so that the upper bar is at about 45 degrees in the slick and you should be alright. Changing chain length makes a very noticeable difference in handling.
When a bar change is made that increases thrust angle to tighten the car but also increases rear steer to loosen the car, you can usually bet that the net result will be tighter unless you are on really hard tires or way off somewhere else on your setup.

[F22 RAPTOR]

This thread has officially been hijacked. LOL

[joedoozer]

I feel violated.

[F22 RAPTOR]

I feel violated.

You don't happen to live in a glass house do you?

[fastford]

Sorry, I agree with 4bangerhotrod on this one. The chain isn't holding the car up the bar is, so more angle IS producing more thrust. It's not like it hits the chain and somehow magically locks in place, the bar is still providing the force to keep it up and that force vector is dependent upon the angle that the bar is at. To a point...after about 45 degrees it looses its effectiveness. I've even seen birdcages cam over doing this and that makes a racecar very evil to drive.
Set your chain length so that the upper bar is at about 45 degrees in the slick and you should be alright. Changing chain length makes a very noticeable difference in handling.
When a bar change is made that increases thrust angle to tighten the car but also increases rear steer to loosen the car, you can usually bet that the net result will be tighter unless you are on really hard tires or way off somewhere else on your setup.

im not trying to be a smart azz or hijack anyones post, ive never run a chain,but if the thrust angle of the bar is trying to push the tire away from the chassis and into the dirt and you have tire restricted by a chain and it cant travel any further down or the chassis cant go up any more up, at this point how can the angle of the bar put more tire pressure on the ground, it seems to me it would put more pressure on the chain, not trying to offend anyone on here, just trying to understand this

[rubbinsracin]

here is how i had it explained to me. hopefully it makes sense to you....

you measure the chain to full droop....usually a measurement from the chassis builder....and set it up to be right at full droop(maybe just a smidge more). this is because once the car gets past this measurement, you are loosing drive. so the chain makes sure that you stay at the maximum amount of drive and no much further because you are just going backwards once you get past a certain amount of droop.

of course if you are rolling over and yanking the chain, you are going to be lifting the tire off the ground, therefore losing more traction, but if you are going over that far, you are probably running into problems other with your setup. like our car for instance, is an underslung car and our car's underslung bar is about 1/4 of an inch past where our maximim bar angle is, so in effect our limiter is our rail, but we have never gotten to the point that we hit the underslung rail anyway so we are ok.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

im not trying to be a smart azz or hijack anyones post, ive never run a chain,but if the thrust angle of the bar is trying to push the tire away from the chassis and into the dirt and you have tire restricted by a chain and it cant travel any further down or the chassis cant go up any more up, at this point how can the angle of the bar put more tire pressure on the ground, it seems to me it would put more pressure on the chain, not trying to offend anyone on here, just trying to understand this

I think the thrust and the chain balance out at that point. All load is derived from how much you have lifted the chassis.

[01racing]

i set my axle drop by my rf if i got 4inchs before it bottoms out then thats what i make it if i have 3.5

[Matt49]

im not trying to be a smart azz or hijack anyones post, ive never run a chain,but if the thrust angle of the bar is trying to push the tire away from the chassis and into the dirt and you have tire restricted by a chain and it cant travel any further down or the chassis cant go up any more up, at this point how can the angle of the bar put more tire pressure on the ground, it seems to me it would put more pressure on the chain, not trying to offend anyone on here, just trying to understand this

No offense taken...this is a friendly debate. But based on your logic, if the chain is tight, all of the force is taken up by the chain. If that was the case there wouldn't be ANY drive in the LR when he car is "on the chain" and believe me there is. Like MBRacer said, there is probably a balancing point there somewhere.

[jedclampit]

Short on time right now but........what is causing the chassis to lift?
Birdcage indexing into SPRING from axle thrust pushing up on chassis?
Axle thrust pushing axle under and up on BARS?
Weight transfer from cornering and lr spring unloading?
Extra body roll from getting the CG RAISED up in the air?
Feel free to add to list!

[joedoozer]

Short on time right now but........what is causing the chassis to lift?
Birdcage indexing into SPRING from axle thrust pushing up on chassis?
Axle thrust pushing axle under and up on BARS?
Weight transfer from cornering and lr spring unloading?
Extra body roll from getting the CG RAISED up in the air?
Feel free to add to list!

All of the above.....except the smiley face with the sun glasses. I don't think that has anything to do with hike.

[dualdj1]

The force created on the LR is just a combination of weight, vertical and lateral force, and gravity. All the chain does is limit how much weight can be transferred over by how high you can make the left side frame rail. Now during hike, there is extra force put down on the LR by resistance to transfer, but once it hits max extension, then your weight on that wheel becomes constant, regardless of drive angle.

All your drive angle does is change the force during hike up, getting you to max slower or faster, and changing the load on the LR during the process. Now if it's not limited with a chain, or you're not hitting tension on the chain, that's a different story.