Sponsor sewing for money back!

[clm15]

Does anyone know if a company/ Person that sponsors a racecar, for 3+ seasons can sew for the money/parts/gifts back? The companys name was on the car every weekend.

[ferd]

What are they sewing? T-shirts or hats, or maybe seat covers? Are they trying to make souveniers to help make some money back? I don't understand why anybody would need to ask for permission to sell souveniers, except maybe if tracks they run at require some sort of registration or kickback or something.

[Bubba Smith]

That's a good question for Bubba Smith Lawyer at large.

Yes you can sew! But, Smith and Smith your 4M lawyers would sue and git ya something back. What did they do? Screw ya?

[chillyrick]

Anyone can sue anyone for anything....and counter sue (or sew!). The real question is...will anyone receive anything, other than the lawyers??????????????

[15jr]

Need more details. Not names of the party just details of what was agreed on in order for them to put the name on the car. Was it understood ( Hopefully in a written contract) that in a split they get to keep the parts, cars, money, ? Or was it assumed? If it was a matter of the cost outweighed the results I would think that any judge would either throw it out or rule in favor of the one who still has the equipment in their possession.

Just my thoughts.

[clm15]

Talked to my layer today. It is a hand shake that sealed the deal. We agreed on racing through this season. And that he didnt want any parts or anything in return but the advertisement on the quarter panels. Witch we gave him. I have been advised to keep the name on the car through the season.
I guess I just posted this to fill the good folks in that these kind of people are out there. I have been at this a long time,and have never had an issue with my sponsors. This guy sent me a letter that he thinks he is a 1/2 owner. That was never said,and non of the money comming in has his name on it. We have had news papers and different racing news, put his name in as a sponsor plus we have shirts that have his name on as a sponsor but that is it.
Word from the wise get some kind of contract from your sponsors. I cant hurt. That way you have an idea of what you need to do as do they.
Layer said its a gift and as long as we put up our end of the deal, there aint much he can do.

[Bubba Smith]

Been there done that. Sometimes you can be "too good" to people. They will take advantage of you.

[15jr]

Talked to my layer today. It is a hand shake that sealed the deal. We agreed on racing through this season. And that he didnt want any parts or anything in return but the advertisement on the quarter panels. Witch we gave him. I have been advised to keep the name on the car through the season.
I guess I just posted this to fill the good folks in that these kind of people are out there. I have been at this a long time,and have never had an issue with my sponsors. This guy sent me a letter that he thinks he is a 1/2 owner. That was never said,and non of the money comming in has his name on it. We have had news papers and different racing news, put his name in as a sponsor plus we have shirts that have his name on as a sponsor but that is it.
Word from the wise get some kind of contract from your sponsors. I cant hurt. That way you have an idea of what you need to do as do they.
Layer said its a gift and as long as we put up our end of the deal, there aint much he can do.

Sounds like they are pretty much a$$ out then. I wonder if they figured if they sponsored a race that they are entitled to half the track the race was run on. Sounds like you gave plenty of coverage for the dollar ( Depending on the dollar) So not sure what the guy is out to do other than try to screw someone.

[clm15]

As I have found out today ,This is nothing new to this guy. I was told to watch my back with him,buy many people. Over 3 years,the total cost was around $7500 that he spent. This was good for us and we liked having him around.
As I have found out the construction company he runs is being sewed by a lumber store over a $6000 debt. HMMMM seems like he wants us to pay for his bills.
He helped out 1 or 2 days a week,and kept saying this was the most fun he has ever had. I thought we got real close as friends! Guess thats why he didn't seem to have many friends.
I feel bad that its got to be this way. But the advertising on the car/Trailer/Shirts is what he wanted and it takes money to play this game.
I hope this don't put a bad taist for other sponsors from helping the local racer. I have ran into many people that don't sponsor racecars for reasons like this. I personaly use companys I see on racecars and make sure I tell them. Have for years. Good Luck to all that run a race team. The way the economy is we will all need it. Good Racing.

[ferd]

Oh, he's suing you. Now I understand.
Sad when you can’t trust a handshake deal, although that’s generally been true for a long time. You admit that you were forewarned… hope people will heed your warning.

My lawyer friend says that if there’s nothing in writing then he can’t win in court. Just hope that he or his lawyers aren’t friends with the judge.

Hope this doesn’t end up costing you time and money. Also hope that it doesn’t stain your reputation. Maybe next time the extra work of drawing up a contract will be worth it to you.

[CMORZ]

I had the same problem years ago. I sponsored a driver. Bought equipment, gave cash for them to go to tracks, paid for hotels, eating out. You name it I paid for it. And not even on the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) race car. That's ok he's having a horrible year and I'm smiling from ear to ear. I was gonna sue him for breach of contract. But I let it go. I'm having more fun watching him DNS or car problems.. Karma is a b#$%^!!! I got a huge bet going too....lol

[p-towne]

I had the same problem years ago. I sponsored a driver. Bought equipment, gave cash for them to go to tracks, paid for hotels, eating out. You name it I paid for it. And not even on the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) race car. That's ok he's having a horrible year and I'm smiling from ear to ear. I was gonna sue him for breach of contract. But I let it go. I'm having more fun watching him DNS or car problems.. Karma is a b#$%^!!! I got a huge bet going too....lol

It's been awhile--Was his initials S.F.:

[lazyifoto]

A sponsor is a sponsor and an owner is the owner..it's actually pretty simple.

[Highbanks]

I had a buddy of mine ask me to look at this as he is having a similar situation:

There are several questions that need answered:

What state are you located in?

Is there a legal agreement between you and the person you say was a sponsor?

Who paid for the parts? Can either of you prove who paid for them? Credit cards, checks, cash receipts, etc....

At any time during your arrangement did either of you give or accept items back from each other? This may prove intent, if no written contract.

At anytime during the agreement did either of you sale any of the items in question?

Do you have proof of the law suit you suggest between the persona and the lumber yard? This is a very touchy situation and opens up litigation
Possibilities of slander and defamation of character, at least in most states.

From what I read on previous post, are there other crew members involved. It would only take one to open the door wide open during litigation.

Have you tried a compromise or made an offer of settlement, this would show good faith if this was ever to be litigated.

Have you heard or received any other materials from the other party since you originally posted? Depending on what type of litigation they would choose,
Statute of limitations can run for several years.

The post that indicates a sponsor is a sponsor, a car owner is a car owner, is not as simple as it may seem. If the party can prove that he had a monetary
interest of 1 -49%, there are certain things they could recoup (depending on law used), if the party could prove that they have 50% or more into the team,
this situation could turn very interesting in that parties favor. There is always the possibility that if they could prove at least half or more of the interest, they
could actually claim full ownership.

The I would be concerned about, (using information posted to date), would be if the party can prove that they paid for items and if there are other parties of the
team that can collaborate with the said party. One must always be cautious that most people that take the stand in a court room under oath, tell the truth, no
matter who side they may appear to be on.

[Highbanks]

My buddy lost his battle today. Judge stated that business that he was involved with clearly had claimed the expenses as a business asset and had the documentation, to include all receipts, which showed such. The judge stated that the evidence clearly showed the business had invested in the race team and clearly was more than sponsorship. The business immediately filed to take possession of the race equipment until the monies owed is sorted out. The business lawyer stated that some of the items the business had receipts for had been sold and due to such all items were at risk. The judge awarded possession to the business. BOY is my buddy pissed.

[buster83]

some sponsors drop 110k or more just on one season,
tires,fuel chassis backup chassis but never be consider be part owner
they may part ways,at new season and search is on for new sponsor.

[ferd]

Sorry that you lost. Are you appealing?

Looks like some lessons here:
1. Sign a contract with each sponsor that states what the sponsor is promising to give you, and what you promise to do in return. If the sponsor won’t sign, find a legal way to note that or find another sponsor.
2. Do not allow the sponsor to directly pay for anything, unless spelled out in the contract. You want all receipts in your own name.
3. In the contract, specify that the sponsor is not buying part of the team or its assets.
4. Document and keep receipts for everything you spend on racing. It might help show that you own more than 50% of the operation.
5. If you accept any parts, tools or other tangible items from the sponsor, be prepared to give them back at any time. If the sponsor doesn’t want them back, get him to sign something stating that and / or prepare a document that shows you tried to return them. If the items are consumable, like fuel or oil, then specify that in the contract.
6. Document everything you do that shows you fulfilling your promises. Pictures, newspaper clippings, taped radio show, anything and everything that could be proof.
7. In the contract, probably better include language that says that any assets you already own before this contract is signed are not to be included during any future legal settlement involving this contract. Keep documentation to show what you already owned.
8. In the contract, include a clause that says that any litigation will be in a specific county or city (that is convenient to you), and that the sponsor assumes all court and litigation costs for both parties.

Disclaimer: I'm NOT a lawyer so these are just ideas. Get a real lawyer to help you with contracts, documentation and settlements. It's a shame that we have to go to all of this trouble, but it's worth it compared to losing all of your race team.

[Highbanks]

Hopefully no appeal needed. The business owner has agreed to a settlement of payment for all the items they purchased, to include the items that my buddy sold that were technically property of the business. After having time to talk this out, it is clear to me and my buddy that the intent was cleary to own the items they bought. Hopefully the car will be back in the garage within a couple weeks. The business owner stated that he would sale the items to my buddy for what he paid for them, which actually is a good deal.

My buddies lawyer told him to take the deal as quick as he can, as the business is doing him a favor as they could take everything and just walk.

[Highbanks]

some sponsors drop 110k or more just on one season,
tires,fuel chassis backup chassis but never be consider be part owner
they may part ways,at new season and search is on for new sponsor.

Were learning the hard way, if a business spends that kin dof money and pays for it through thier accounts, then it belongs to the business, it is not a sponsorship.

[racin6mod]

My buddy lost his battle today. Judge stated that business that he was involved with clearly had claimed the expenses as a business asset and had the documentation, to include all receipts, which showed such. The judge stated that the evidence clearly showed the business had invested in the race team and clearly was more than sponsorship. The business immediately filed to take possession of the race equipment until the monies owed is sorted out. The business lawyer stated that some of the items the business had receipts for had been sold and due to such all items were at risk. The judge awarded possession to the business. BOY is my buddy pissed.

As a bussiness owner/ racer I also sponsor a couple other guy's. I never buy the parts for them the way I look at it is I pay them for the sign on the car.I would not allow a sponsor to buy parts directly as that does make them part owner and the more they buy the larger their part becomes.I've seen the cloest friend's end up fighting over this stuff in the past.