Late model front end question;blue,black grey

[racer21]

I'm looking at getting a used late model to run my local track and was wondering what the difference in the front end is on the black,blue and grey,seems like there is all different kinds out there,the track is a little 1/4 with medium banking and get slick from time to time and i was just wondering if any one is better than the other,i have been in mods for several years and dont know alot about the latemadels,thanks for the info

[Graff Spee]

Yes they are all a bit different. I think that it is ultimately a marketing strategy to get you to buy the newest best thing. The Black front works well, it was designed with the "Must turn in at all cost" thought pattern. The blue is the same as the black with the excepttion that the moment center is brought closer to the centerline of the chassis. This helps to promote a more stable and secure feeling to the driver. (not evedent with the black) The blue is is easy to make if you have a black front end. You just mount the right front upper arm 2 inches higher. Mark Bush was advising this mod for people who wanted a less dartey front end. They finally incorporated the changes into the spindle itself. It just bolts on now. They make more money. The Grey I do not know about. I would guess that it is just a further refinement.

[racer21]

Thanks graff thats what i was looking for!!

[Dirt Man]

Was just told by a guy that picked up a new chassis, that Rocket now has an orange spindle set-up for the front of the newest cars.

[TALON75]

Grey is the same as a blue just gives you an option to slow down the steering with a different mount on the spindle for the tierod .

[jedclampit]

Yes they are all a bit different. I think that it is ultimately a marketing strategy to get you to buy the newest best thing. The Black front works well, it was designed with the "Must turn in at all cost" thought pattern. The blue is the same as the black with the excepttion that the moment center is brought closer to the centerline of the chassis. This helps to promote a more stable and secure feeling to the driver. (not evedent with the black) The blue is is easy to make if you have a black front end. You just mount the right front upper arm 2 inches higher. Mark Bush was advising this mod for people who wanted a less dartey front end. They finally incorporated the changes into the spindle itself. It just bolts on now. They make more money. The Grey I do not know about. I would guess that it is just a further refinement.

First I heard of the raised upper rf mount. Isn't the blue/grey a different height spindle? Does this simulate the rc of a blue front or is this the actual difference?

[Graff Spee]

I would assume that the change was made in the spindle. I have a black front and was told that the blue would fit with no mods. Its all about the mighty dollar!!

[M_Logan41]

So im slightly confused? You have a Black Front end car. Are you running blue spindles? Or are you running Black Spindles with thr RF upper 2" above standard? My 05 Black has 2 holes is it 2" from the bottom hole or top hole? Where is your LF upper?
Thanks.

[talclipse]

I have never heard of moving the RF upper A arm being used to make a black front end car a blue. Not to say that the guys in WV wouldn't do something just to market it to us common folk.

I will fully admit that I am not aware of how putting blue spindles on a black front end car and raising the RF control arm mounting point 2" would effect the car. Before anyone goes out and starts hacking into the front end of their race car they need to make sure they fully understand how this will change the handling of their car.

As far as the orange spindles go there have been rumors of an all new chassis out of shinnston for a few months now. The fact that J. Richards is downplaying the change from to the RYR Ford motors suggests to me that he may be running one of the new chassis now and is wanting to ensure that credit is placed where it is due (or not due).

[Graff Spee]

I run black spindles! If you raise the lft uppr a arm 2 inches you get close to or the same as a blue front end. The idea was to make the black front end more stable feeling. If you have specific questions call Mark Bush. I only know what he told me. This was a few years ago. Call Mark.

[jedclampit]

There are rumors going around about a new car. I'll refrain from kibitzing till an official statement is out.

To Graff: So this change is it on the rf or lf? I don't think it would make the car the same as blue (due to spindle heights) but that will move the front rc, possibly similar to the location in a blue car.
I recall something Mark said in a conversation with him years back eluding to reposition the rc in a black car.

[Graff Spee]

rt front. Yup you got it Jed.

[jedclampit]

I run black spindles! If you raise the lft uppr a arm 2 inches you get close to or the same as a blue front end. The idea was to make the black front end more stable feeling. If you have specific questions call Mark Bush. I only know what he told me. This was a few years ago. Call Mark.

This is why I questioned left or right.

[jedclampit]

Orange front end car now available, order yours now!!!




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<see ad

[AmickRacing]

Can't afford the orange front end, could probably swing for a can of orange krylon tho!

What's the scoop with the orange one now?

[talclipse]

Per the guys in Shinnston the only components from a previous car you can utilize on the new cars is the LF upper and lower control arm. EVERYTHING else is different.

If one of these new cars goes out and wins this weekend at Eldora I figure you will be seeing a lot of 09, 10, 11 cars for sale/ being traded in.

[scrub_fan]

was told that a orange front was at tyler county and finished 3 or 4

[Ghopper]

Orange front end -

Timing for a new front end release is important. Like the release of a new iPhone, it must be consciously staged. I think Rocket is doing at great job marketing this change.

Working backward from a target release date:
• World 100 time-frame for public announcement which is important for chassis selection for the following year. (Sept 10 '11)
• keep exposure to a few so that relative performance is unknown compared to the Blue/Gray (Aug10 '11– Sept 4 '11)
• Word slips out for several months during testing to finalized pre-production components, builds anticipation and stalls some decisions to change chassis builders (Feb '11 – Aug '11)
• Recognize that the product line is becoming dated and that producing HOPE for racers critical in this market place (Sept '10– Dec '10). Other vehicles have become desirable in the market, even though your performace is equal or better with old design (Victory Circle, MB2, Warrior). New market requirements say that the vehicle platform must be equal or better in performance to the current car or Consumer Reports will move you to the "not recommended" category. Good news for Rocket that they can rely on all new testing to be applied the new car, plus normal technology evolution that will make any car better and will be used by top racers that only use your newest cars.




Ghopper

[talclipse]

Orange front end -

Timing for a new front end release is important. Like the release of a new iPhone, it must be consciously staged. I think Rocket is doing at great job marketing this change.

Working backward from a target release date:
• World 100 time-frame for public announcement which is important for chassis selection for the following year. (Sept 10 '11)
• keep exposure to a few so that relative performance is unknown compared to the Blue/Gray (Aug10 '11– Sept 4 '11)
• Word slips out for several months during testing to finalized pre-production components, builds anticipation and stalls some decisions to change chassis builders (Feb '11 – Aug '11)
• Recognize that the product line is becoming dated and that producing HOPE for racers critical in this market place (Sept '10– Dec '10). Other vehicles have become desirable in the market, even though your performace is equal or better with old design (Victory Circle, MB2, Warrior). New market requirements say that the vehicle platform must be equal or better in performance to the current car or Consumer Reports will move you to the "not recommended" category. Good news for Rocket that they can rely on all new testing to be applied the new car, plus normal technology evolution that will make any car better and will be used by top racers that only use your newest cars.




Ghopper

Does this mean we can expect to see a new orange front rocket chassis misplaced at a bar just down the road from the rocket shop?

[Dpenn27]

I was told that the only big difference between the two cars where the blue front end is built with the right front ahead and the black front end is built heads up. Don't know if there is any truth to that since I havent measured it myself, but moving your A arms heights changes roll center for the most part surely there is more difference in these cars than just roll center. I would also like to know what is built into these cars that are different.


Thanks.