b-mod engine

[stpmotorsports]

Bought a brand new 4.125" bore block, trying to decide what to put in it to make a 2 barrel engine for next season. We have mostly ran 4" bore engines, 355 and 383's. What would be suggestions on stroke, rod length, compression and cam? I have a set of 215 iron eagles, but not against buying something different if cost to power gain is feasible.

[stock car driver]

215s are too big for a 4412 motor no matter how many cubes, they hurt my hp and tq below 6500 even on a 436 with a large outlaw 4412.

180s seem to perform the best
vortec bowties are even better

[hogracer3d]

I used to think the same thing, until we (just for grins) put a gauge 4412 on a 406 with 235cc runner heads, we were dyno'n, and it made 536 hp, but add the 4bbl and it was right at 700

And the best we ever did with the 360 (with 180cc) Bowtie Vortec's was 508hp

[DaveBauerSS6]

3.5 stroke crank, 6 in rod, & oversize the cam. As much compression as you can afford for fuel. Big cams love big compression. Too much cid / torque just makes the car harder to drive. The 215s will take some of the pop out of the bottom. With the limits of the b-mod suspension this will help.

[stpmotorsports]

Our b-mods dont have suspension rules. They are just a regular mod with a 2 barrel and clutch, any clutch is allowed as well, just no Bert, brinn, etc. In the mods, most say go with 380-390 c.i., 3.500"-3.562" stroke, and most 2 barrel street stock guys like big c.i. My question is, with a 2500# car do you want the cubes because of the limitation of the carb or do you stay with the short stroke to keep the torque down and just turn the rpm up? Does the 2 bbl limit how high you can efficiently turn it, thus making the short stroke not work as well?
Btw, we currently have a JDR E-85 4412, I would like to stay with the E-85, so what is the compression limit?

[DaveBauerSS6]

What tires do you run?

[hogracer3d]

I like the E85 concept, wish it was an option for us.

We have had both 400+ and 360's, and personally the reliability of the smaller motor is worth the race or two the big cube motors will beat you

Our 360 is in it's 11th year, still standard bearings, and still winning.....

Just my opinion..

[stpmotorsports]

we run both the imca hoosiers and the hoosier e-mod A's depending on which track we go to. We also run on tracks as small as 1/5th mile up to a big 3/8ths.
Whatever we build will prolly get a 4 bbl put on it a couple times a year to run with the A mods

[50j]

Do you mix your own E-85, buy Rockett or Ignite, or get it at the gas station?

[stock car driver]

I used to think the same thing, until we (just for grins) put a gauge 4412 on a 406 with 235cc runner heads, we were dyno'n, and it made 536 hp, but add the 4bbl and it was right at 700

And the best we ever did with the 360 (with 180cc) Bowtie Vortec's was 508hp

What is the point of the above information?

Are you waiting to post what the hp was with smaller cc heads on the 406 or larger cc heads on the 360??


I just pulled vortec bowties off my 436 and put 215cc runner heads on, actual 215 as measured not just off the shelf heads, cnc ported heads. And I lost a lot of tq and lot of hp below 6500, period. And like I said this was with a BIG worked 4412. I put the vortecs back on before I raced it as I dont need to kill hp or tq with over sized heads.

[stpmotorsports]

The past couple years we have been getting our e-85 from the gas station. It has been very consistent, until about this time of year. We would like to mix our own or buy race grade, but we have not found a supplier for it. I have asked about all of the local fuel dealers and all say that it is hard to get, I cant understand that, but its what I have been told.
Anyone know of a dealer around Southeast Missouri?

[50j]

You might try calling Rockett Racing Fuels or Ignite for the race grade E-85. They can get it to you. If you can find E-98 you can mix your own and adjust the ethanol percentage. From the pump with 85%, there are people running 13:1 with a 2bbl, no problems. I've ran that compression with a 4bbl on pump E-85. With good fuel and a 2bbl, I wouldn't be afraid of 14:1.

[hogracer3d]

What is the point of the above information?

Are you waiting to post what the hp was with smaller cc heads on the 406 or larger cc heads on the 360??


I just pulled vortec bowties off my 436 and put 215cc runner heads on, actual 215 as measured not just off the shelf heads, cnc ported heads. And I lost a lot of tq and lot of hp below 6500, period. And like I said this was with a BIG worked 4412. I put the vortecs back on before I raced it as I dont need to kill hp or tq with over sized heads.

Just making a statement that you can make good power on a 2bbl with a big runner head that flows 345 CFM on the intake

Cant put a 2.180 valve into 2.02 flycut, so the large head wont ever be on the 360, and the 32lb crank in the 360 wont support a 4bbl, so that aint happin'n either

So the guy doesnt bail on the idea of using the 215 s if he doesnt have to, and I think he mentioned an occasional 4bbl on there, as well

Just take it easy there kingfish.........

[stock car driver]

Just making a statement that you can make good power on a 2bbl with a big runner head that flows 345 CFM on the intake

Cant put a 2.180 valve into 2.02 flycut, so the large head wont ever be on the 360, and the 32lb crank in the 360 wont support a 4bbl, so that aint happin'n either

So the guy doesnt bail on the idea of using the 215 s if he doesnt have to, and I think he mentioned an occasional 4bbl on there, as well

Just take it easy there kingfish.........

Gotcha, Seems like your numbers prove the large heads killed the 406. Your 360 is within a few hp of it.

[stock car driver]

Ill sell you these so you can try them on your 360 and post the comparison to the vortec bowties. They were built with small valves to clear my pistons with tiny valve reliefs if I decided to put them on my small cube motor. Ill even ship them to you for free!!

Id love to see you post a factual back to back comparison.



Hvh CNC ported RHS heads all new parts best you can get. They have dyno time only too big for 350cfm carb I run. 61cc/ 219cc runners after CNC 2.02/1.6 valves.. Lots of nice hand work in bowls!! Fereah hollow stem valves, tool steel lw retainers, ten degree locks. $2500 complete $1600 BARE

[parrot69777]

From my experience......one of the biggest problems with people when they are switching heads around is......they never change the camshaft to match what they are working with.

Most of the time someone was given a $25 midwest motorsports or JR's #whatever that supposedly won a couple races 20 years ago......and think it's supposed to work with any engine combination out there. Then they blame the heads, carb, intake manifold, etc.

[stock car driver]

From my experience......one of the biggest problems with people when they are switching heads around is......they never change the camshaft to match what they are working with.

Most of the time someone was given a $25 midwest motorsports or JR's #whatever that supposedly won a couple races 20 years ago......and think it's supposed to work with any engine combination out there. Then they blame the heads, carb, intake manifold, etc.

Switching heads to compare like heads on a motor doesnt require changing a cam...

You only change one variable at a time.

[hogracer3d]

I wouldnt have any compression with a 61cc chamber on either motor, both of these heads are in the mid 40cc range

[stock car driver]

You can have them milled and intake face and bolt angles corrected...

[stpmotorsports]

Whatever combo we go with, I will have a camshaft custom ground to the engine. I have done this will all of our engines.
I will be contacting Rocket about fuel. I havent even been able to locate e98 to mix my own in this area, maybe they can tell me of a nearby dealer.
I appreciate all of the opinions and views, if we all had the same thought process, racing would be boring! LOL
But, on the subject at hand. Does the 2bbl carb limit the effective and efficient RPM range, thus favoring the larger displacement? Where does the head size factor in, bigger head-higher RPM? Remember this is for a 2500# car.